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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2003, 14:34 
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hey, does anyone know what that quote at the end of sand and mercury is all about?? you know, the one that goes 'there is no such thing as a natural death'.... i need to know these things, i'm sad.


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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2003, 14:50 
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from gathering.nl>journal>(1994 - 1995): Mandylion - The Gathering mark II:

Of course, Sand and Mercury is THE epic song on the album. Almost 10 minutes, and a lot of things happen in these 10 minutes! A very heavy overture, like the old Celtic Frost, a 'trippy' bridge like Pink Floyd, and incredible vocal lines of Anneke at the end of the song, dealing about (again) losing someone dear. The end of the song is a narrative of J.R.R. Tolkien. Talking about his vision of 'death'. It's an old BBC interview, it fits perfectly with the song. Live, this song worked especially well. On the Mandylion and Nighttime Birds tours it was the highlight of the gig.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2003, 16:19 
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Mati wrote:
HI !
Someone remembers the speech at the end of Sand and Mercury, its a BBC interview (I think) to the great JRR Tolkien ?
Well, a few days ago I finished reading a very interesting book by Simone de Beauvoir : « Une mort trés douce » (a very sweet death) and my surprise finishing the book, was the final paragraph:
There is not such thing as a natural death: nothing that happens to men is ever natural since his only presence calls the whole world into question. All men must die: but for every men death an accident and, even if he knows it an accept it, is an unjustified violation.
This is what Tolkien says in the interview, used in Sand and Mercury. I mean, this words are not from Tolkien as I used to think, but from the French writer Simone de Beauvoir .


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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2003, 12:40 
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Oh, that's interesting cos i've always thought that the last few words sounded like 'lord of the rings'... now it all makes sense.


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2004, 10:44 
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I've renamed the topic to make it clearer... Cause there will be more "questions" in the future ;)

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 09:05 
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Jinjo wrote:
Oh, that's interesting cos i've always thought that the last few words sounded like 'lord of the rings'... now it all makes sense.


Well, I think Tolkien applied this quote on the Lord of the Rings and you are not mistaken. The quote is a bit longer than just
Quote:
There is not such thing as a natural death: nothing that happens to men is ever natural since his only presence calls the whole world into question. All men must die: but for every men death an accident and, even if he knows it an accept it, is an unjustified violation.


He adds:
Quote:
Now, you may agree with these words or not, but those are...are the [unintelligible to me] of the Rord of the Rings


And if I may add on a personal note, Sand and Mercury is one of the all-time favourites of mine. I don't know why but the long vocal glissando when Anneke sings ...stay for a while never fails to send shivers up and down my spine, it's just so nicely fluid... Ach, the whole song is just a masterpiece! :wink:

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 10:39 
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Surely one of their classical songs...what i like most is its beginning and the ending when anneke starts to sing!
Very emotional ending,if you watch the band's dvd,anneke almost cries when she sings "...see how sick i am,how i long for your embrace..."
But what i hate in this part is the ignorance of the audience :x
Such an emotional moment and you can see some guys in the audience speaking with their backs turned to the stage...Respect mates!

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 15:27 
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That's Poland, alright? :-?

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 17:00 
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Nothing that happens to man is ever natural. As his presence calls the whole world into question, all man must die, and for every man whose death is an accident, and even if he knows it he senses an unjustible violation. You may agree with these words or not, those are the...the keystring of the laws of the living

That's the complete and correct speech of Tolkien... But according to someone on the old forum of the band, those words might e quoted from the French writer Simone de Beauvoir.
I've never got any confirmation about this... I should check that

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 17:17 
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Burn wrote:
Nothing that happens to man is ever natural. As his presence calls the whole world into question, all man must die, and for every man whose death is an accident, and even if he knows it he senses an unjustible violation. You may agree with these words or not, those are the...the keystring of the laws of the living
Burn


Oh, ok, so I mistook laws of the living for Lord of the Rings. Damn, why did the Professor have to mumble like he did, lol!

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 18:18 
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Phibbie wrote:
That's Poland, alright? :-?

Well,i don't have anything against the poland fans but i find their their lack of interest in that gig annoying -at least-


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 18:25 
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Well here in Poland there are people who, generally speaking, listen to only 2 kinds of metal - gothic & extreme hardcore or whatever else you call it. Anyway - if you go to a TG gig in Poland NOWADAYS - it could be even worse. I heard about an, let's call it incident, in Warsaw, when a guy during the breaks between the songs was shouting "change the vocalist" all the time. The point is, that here in Poland listen mainly to Always, sometimes to Mandylion. The mentality of Polish metalheads is like "if I listen to something unmetal then I suck", and that's the way it is ;)

I don't know what this text has to do with the Katowice gig, but I already wrote it and I don't feel like deleting it :P Thank you very much ;)

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 18:31 
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Ok,i got your point phibbie :wink: !


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 18:43 
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That's kind of the same everywhere about metalheads die hards... but don't you think it's a bit off topic ;)

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2004, 21:28 
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Don't worry, we've just finished ;)

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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2004, 18:13 
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caleidoscope wrote:
Oh, ok, so I mistook laws of the living for Lord of the Rings. Damn, why did the Professor have to mumble like he did, lol!


Ooh...I've made the same mistake all these years! But what can I say - it does sound like lotr... and the message would fit the trilogy as well.

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed now :-?

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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004, 00:10 
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According to a website I've looked at tonight, the words are as follows:

"There is no such thing as a natural death. Nothing that happens to Man is ever natural, since his presence calls the whole world into question. All men must die, but for every man his death is an accident. And even if he knows it and consents to it, an unjustifiable violation." Well, you may agree with the words or not, but those are the keyspring of The Lord of the Rings.

So I guess the part in quote marks is taken from Simone de Beauvoir, and the last sentence is Tolkien's own. As for the reason why some words are mumbled:

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I think the pipe has something to do with it.


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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004, 09:01 
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caleidoscope wrote:
Oh, ok, so I mistook laws of the living for Lord of the Rings. Damn, why did the Professor have to mumble like he did, lol!

I understand, though I didn't fall into the same mistake.
Still, and though everyone seems to agree with the word, "keyspring" feels quite odd...

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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004, 09:48 
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JayCee wrote:
Still, and though everyone seems to agree with the word, "keyspring" feels quite odd...


Well, English isn't my first language (it's my fourth actually) but couldn't it be the key strings of the laws of the living??

In German, you got an expression "roter Faden" which means a sort of underlying motive...Don't know if it could mean the same thing..?

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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004, 10:29 
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eh,I've always thought since the 1rst time I've heard S&M, that the words were Lord Of The Rings ! I don't hear law of the living :-? ...and I'm still quite sure, but I will have to listen to this song once more :D !

ps : just a note, I know it's a bit off topic, sorry Burn. Have you noticed this strange coincidence ?
3 Rings for the Elven Kings under the Sky
7 for the Dwarf Lords in their halls of Stone
9 for Mortal Men doomed to die
1 for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

1973 : the year Tolkien died.

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