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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2006, 17:23 
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Burn wrote:
...and really if you don't like their evolution, you'll find many bands that sounds like they used too...


tipical 15 yars old easy aswer for that... if u don't like this, then let's get out of here... however.. it's not an "evolution" for me, I've said it a few times, it's just a change... even an involution..... they play one thing instead of another one... what they do now is not better than previous style... (necessary condition for an "evolution")... just it's different and worse for me

the problem is there's not some other band which sounds like TG in mandylion or NtB... even TG changed their style (at the cost of their first unconditional fans who made them known) and they went for easy way, popular rythms in order to catch more fans.
and I said it before... maybe TG guys changed the style because of an unconscious fear of not being able to overcome Mandylion or even Ntb. then change style and nobody compares them because they're two different kind of music and blah blah blah.... or they didn't like metal anymore simply and they preferred to be a pop band as now... who knows... whatever...

it's a neverending discussion... :-?

cheers again!.. C[_]...

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2006, 17:57 
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Coyote wrote:

the problem is there's not some other band which sounds like TG in mandylion or NtB... even TG changed their style (at the cost of their first unconditional fans who made them known) and they went for easy way, popular rythms in order to catch more fans.


Here are a few points concerning your reply:

1 - I'm one of the "first unconditional fans" and I'm still here. I appreciate TG's change and evolution (yes, evolution!). Ok, sometimes I miss some heavy guitars, but the structures and melodies are still very very fine and appealing.

2 - Do you really think they went for easy way? I think exactly the opposite. If TG had keep their gothic/metal sound, as in Mandylion or NB, surely the band would have more fans, specially young ones (the ones that listen to Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation, Epica and even Nightwish). TG takes risks with every new album, and although my favorites are Mandylion and Always... (see? I told you I was an old fan... 8)), Souvenirs and Home are far from disappointment, in particular because these two records bring new things to their sound, and so they keep things a lot interesting. This is an easy way? Honestly, I don't think so!!!!

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2006, 18:11 
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First of all, we're talking about a band who was selling at most 100,000 or so albums (according to wikipedia). (no offense meant to TG, to me it means nothing that you sell 1 album or 1 millions). But if they ever wanted to be commercial, they never understood how.

Coyote wrote:
(blah blah blah snipped) ...and they went for easy way, popular rythms in order to catch more fans.


If this is your assumption, then they failed... Sales have been going down since Mandylion (again according to wikipedia... it might be CM, it might not be, who knows). My assumption though is, they play whatever they want to play. Beside, if you listen to the albums in chronoligical order, you can easily see where the new album picks up where the previous left, and what is left behind, and what is brought in.

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and I said it before... maybe TG guys changed the style because of an unconscious fear of not being able to overcome Mandylion or even Ntb. then change style and nobody compares them because they're two different kind of music and blah blah blah.... or they didn't like metal anymore simply and they preferred to be a pop band as now... who knows... whatever...


Again, this is your opinion, which is fine. But to me, NB is a bad album (this is my opinion). Not bad in the sense that it is not listenable, but in the sense that it is a reheated Mandylion. I almost never listen to it.

That being said, who wants to listen to the same song throughout 10 albums, aside from country music fans and Rolling Stones fans?

I like TG because it is one of the few bands that I am not sure what to expect next time they put an album. The only other band (that I listen to) that is in the same boat is Tristania (and DCD, but who knows if they'll ever come out with something again). Sure I listen to Iron Maiden, Nightwish, Therion, Anathema, Kamelot, Blind Guardian, Epica, ToT, etc., etc., all your typical (random style) metal bands but none of these bands surprise me anymore... or have tried in any case recently.


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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2006, 23:24 
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I love the argument they went for the easy way... if they had chosen that path, they would have kept doing the music that made them break through... instead they decided to follow their heart and that's why I still love their music so much tho it's different...

@Coyote you may find my reply childish... but I think as you cannot make th eband changes their path, and as you dont like it, there is no need to keep saying it was better before...
If the band was coming back to Mandylion style they would show a weakness in my opinion by trying to please the audience instead of pleasing themselves first... (and thus being honest).
If you dont like Souvenirs and Homes, then I just say you should find something else you like... It's nothing bad about that... For example I love Sin Pecado and Butterfly FX of Moonspell but I dont like their later work... Well then I dont listen to it, I dont buy it and I am not frustrated in any way cause I went looking for some 'replacement' and actually broaden my horizon and discovered many other stuffs...
So I don't say what I said in a mean way... just that you have nowadays so many things to discover that are out of the mainstream paths (such as Agalloch, White Birch ;))

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 00:05 
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"they followed their hearts and because of that you looove their music..."

beautiful, man.... lovely thought... very tender, you deserve a little teddy bear for that.. :-? (you ..... forget it)


pfff.. I can't reply to that man... sorry... :-?


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 02:39 
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Bottom line: if you like metal with female leads, there are plenty to choose from; The Gathering did it and moved on. Deal with it.


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 02:49 
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"Souvenirs" album take 2 years in studio to be achieved. Whatever you think about ther evolution, you cannot sincerely say that the band has chosen an easy way-out.

Moreover The Gathering seems to be a band of artists apart from being a band of musicians. Musicians are not meant to Find new ways of expression, but so artists are, this is a part of their job!


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 04:06 
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Cuckoorex wrote:
Bottom line: if you like metal with female leads, there are plenty to choose from; The Gathering did it and moved on. Deal with it.


Best reply in thread.

Personally I don't see anything remotely metal about TG and that doesn't bother me in the least. I'd rather listen to this "crap" than to a band that tries to be "metal." I dropped a lot of bands from rotation because they just try too f'ing hard.

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 07:21 
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thelostpatrol wrote:
Cuckoorex wrote:
Bottom line: if you like metal with female leads, there are plenty to choose from; The Gathering did it and moved on. Deal with it.


Best reply in thread.

Personally I don't see anything remotely metal about TG and that doesn't bother me in the least. I'd rather listen to this "crap" than to a band that tries to be "metal." I dropped a lot of bands from rotation because they just try too f'ing hard.


Excellent replies to both of you! :D

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 07:24 
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BridgeToClarity wrote:
Prowler213 wrote:
If you see it clearly the best performance of Anneke is recorded in the Sleepy Buildings album where NO distortion is around her voice...and there she reveals how emotionally deep is her voice...


Her vocals on Home are the best she's ever recorded. imo
You listen to The Gathering, but, maybe you just don't hear them. :wink:


From the moment we are arguing about her vocals on their latest releases this means that in nowadays she is much better than before! :wink:

And I dont understand what you mean with this:You listen to The Gathering, but, maybe you just don't hear them.

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 08:53 
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Most people's opinions here mirror mine, but I just wanted to address some points I read.

Coyote wrote:
they play one thing instead of another one... what they do now is not better than previous style... (necessary condition for an "evolution")... just it's different and worse for me


I think the key phrase here is "for me". You're expressing your personal opinion, yet state it as fact. Well, just because you don't like something, doesn't make it necessarily bad. Different, yes.

Coyote wrote:
the problem is there's not some other band which sounds like TG in mandylion or NtB... even TG changed their style (at the cost of their first unconditional fans who made them known) and they went for easy way, popular rythms in order to catch more fans.


Really? That's curious, because one, you make assumption on behalf of the band without actually knowing what they were thinking, and two, while I haven't checked sales numbers and all that, anyone who I've gotten to listen to The Gathering actually finds the earlier stuff easier to listen to, even non-metal fans. I think that's saying something, don't you? Oh, most of these people really appreciate the latest releases by Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil and Nightwish, too.


Coyote wrote:
and I said it before... maybe TG guys changed the style because of an unconscious fear of not being able to overcome Mandylion or even Ntb. then change style and nobody compares them because they're two different kind of music and blah blah blah.... or they didn't like metal anymore simply and they preferred to be a pop band as now... who knows... whatever...


I'm sorry, but this is an absurd argument. "Because we're afraid we'll never surpass our masterpieces, let's branch off into a totally different and unknown direction, which will require infinitely more work, inspiration and imagination." Hmmm, not too likely IMO. Wouldn't it be more logical to continue in the vein that they started, the safe and known route? (Thank God they didn't!)

And regarding what was said about the "unconditional fans" from the beginning. I wasn't there at the very beginning, I started to listen with Mandylion and NB. But I don't consider myself an "unconditional fan". As long as a band puts out material that 1) I like, 2) are worthy of the band's quality and ability, and 3) doesn't insult my intelligence, I'll keep coming back. It's that simple. And TG have done a very good job bringing me back over the years.

I really don't understand one thing: If people like hangyord and Coyote appreciate the old material and don't like the new material at all, why do they keep coming back to this band? I think it's obvious by now that The Gathering will never again play like they did in the 90s. Quality of the work aside, why do they keep coming back, and offering opinions that have no constructive criticism in them but "I don't like it 'cos it's not metal anymore, and the band sold out". I mean, seriously, people. Wouldn't the time spent bitching about it be better applied to listening some of the music you still like? This isn't an attempt to make fun, it's a serious question, by the way.


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 09:12 
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It might be because as much as they don't like the new material, they still find their older albums to be in their top favourites. Because of that, they go on here just because they hope to cross fans of the albums that they love.

I'm just guessing on this, please correct me if I'm wrong.


I say all of this because this is how I am now with Lacuna Coil.

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 10:02 
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Prowler213 wrote:
BridgeToClarity wrote:
Prowler213 wrote:
If you see it clearly the best performance of Anneke is recorded in the Sleepy Buildings album where NO distortion is around her voice...and there she reveals how emotionally deep is her voice...


Her vocals on Home are the best she's ever recorded. imo
You listen to The Gathering, but, maybe you just don't hear them. :wink:


From the moment we are arguing about her vocals on their latest releases this means that in nowadays she is much better than before! :wink:

And I dont understand what you mean with this:You listen to The Gathering, but, maybe you just don't hear them.


You have to watch "White Men Can't Jump" movie. To know what I mean about my "can't hear them" comment. Is joke. :lol:

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 10:15 
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York Peppymint Patty wrote:
It might be because as much as they don't like the new material, they still find their older albums to be in their top favourites. Because of that, they go on here just because they hope to cross fans of the albums that they love.

I'm just guessing on this, please correct me if I'm wrong.


I say all of this because this is how I am now with Lacuna Coil.


No offense...just curious....

Can you please tell me what attracts you more to Lacuna Coil as a band than The Gathering?

And just to mention something that Mac-T said before....The Gathering WON'T for sure make a turnover to their early/mid 90s sound!See around how many bands make this turnover....how can we be sure that The Gathering wont do something like this?Maybe because the band doesn't feel the attraction to that sound?Or more to say that the band ALL the time suggests to the fans of that albums to just listen to them and not wait for a new release with old "true" sound?

Or more to say: See which bands make a turnover...all these bands try to make a step forward to another sound and when they see that they have failed - in artistic or financial way - they quit or they say this cliche: "We are back to our roots and to have the sound that gave us our reputation we have now"! In other words: We lost our path and we have to stop risk our sound...let's play what we know better = SAFE DECISIONS

The Gathering didnt do that because they are the only successful band of this scene in exploring music paths...if they ever try to ressurect the Mandylion/NB I will be the first to make fun of them!

Have you ever thought of these matters?

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 12:26 
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Prowler213 wrote:
And just to mention something that Mac-T said before....The Gathering WON'T for sure make a turnover to their early/mid 90s sound!See around how many bands make this turnover....how can we be sure that The Gathering wont do something like this?Maybe because the band doesn't feel the attraction to that sound?Or more to say that the band ALL the time suggests to the fans of that albums to just listen to them and not wait for a new release with old "true" sound?


I guess if they intended to do that, they would've already done it... four full-length albums away from the last "true" sounding album is kind of a long time. With the exception of returning to something sounding more like HTMAP and less like Souvenirs, I really don't see them making that big of a turnback.

Hell, it only took Paradise Lost what, one album to return to form? :P


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 12:29 
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Viajante wrote:
This is an easy way? Honestly, I don't think so!!!!


+ 1 ... i agree with you in most of your single words ... :wink:

i dont think they chose the easiest way too... on the contrary.

Facing current life difficulties but naturally keeping their identity, the band is getting more and more experienced, opened, mature and human through the days...
day after day... after joy or sadness, they discover a bit of themselves...
as artists, this life growing experience is just reflective and involved in their music writting, inspiration and creativity

well, that's my opinion and i find this position pretty normal and natural... but so honest.

yes, to me, the Gathering is an honest band (compared with others) who plays honest music (they always did) toward their fans...


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 13:30 
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It's funny when someone makes a topice like this and gets dissapeared and all the others (We) continue to discuss about obvious things like the evolution of TG...
On the other hand that's (one reason)what forums are about...

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 17:03 
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@ Dutch: Hey, that's our mission in this forum: explain to those characters the obvious (TG's musical and artistic evolution). 8) 8) 8)

@ Hoang: Yeap! Completly agree on the honesty subject!!!

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 18:43 
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hangyord wrote:
:roll: have you ever heard about DEMOCRACY? :D


I found this one rather funny. Yeah, I've heard of democracy, and according to the way it's being practiced currently, we should bomb your house for even having a different view than the concensus.

So for your sake, we won't practice 'democracy' at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: I CANNOT BELIEVE...
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 19:28 
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hangyord wrote:
about 5 or 6 years ago, my first contact with this band was 'Always' album... I really liked it, it was heavy, strong, but at the same time very melodic... having an excellent combination of voices...

a couple of years ago I got Mandylion album, it was different, but keeping the metalic influence... it was good for my ears too...

nowadays, looking for material of, what i thought it was a "great" band, i found myself with this "thing"... :-?

sorry for the fans, but what is this crap? :-?

there's nothing to do with original Gathering musical concept, this is the most gay music i've ever listen! :P

I mean, if you guys wanted to make that kind of music, no problem, but, WHY DIDN'T YOU CHANGE THE BAND'S NAME? :-?

This is not "The Gathering"... I don't know what it is! :lol:

I'm not trying to make a fight about this, but I would like to know WHY did you continue using this name if the original concept is now completely DEAD. I mean it is not a simply "evolution" of music... this is something completely different from your beginings... :roll:

where is your metalic heart rutten bros? :P



i salute you :green:
ZzZzZz...

i think you need to listen more music...
and i think you are an asshole too :)
open your little mind...

Anyway, i guees the gatehring is not a popular band who need to be listen by all...

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