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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2007, 18:15 
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Hans wrote:
We recorded this DVD in Santiago de Chile, on NTSC. If it would have been superb quality (PAL) and
top notch equipment that we were after, we would have recorded in Amsterdam or another big city in Europe.


From Wikipedia:

"PAL, short for Phase Alternating Line, is a colour encoding system used in broadcast television systems in large parts of the world. Other common analogue television systems are SECAM and NTSC."
"NTSC is the analog television system in use in the United States, Canada, Japan, Mexico, the Philippines, South Korea, Taiwan, and some other countries, mostly in the Americas (see map). It is named for the National Television System Committee[1], the U.S. standardization body that adopted it. It is frequently but wrongly called National Television Standards Committee. The original document at the Library of Congress is clear in that respect[1]."

PAL vs. NTSC:
Because the PAL format has greater resolution than NTSC, it is generally accepted as being of higher quality.[2] NTSC receivers have a tint control to perform colour correction manually. If this isn't adjusted correctly, the colours will be faulty. The PAL standard automatically removes hue errors by utilizing phase alternation of the colour signal (see technical details), so a tint control is unnecessary.
However, the alternation of colour information — Hanover bars — can lead to picture grain on pictures with extreme phase errors even in PAL systems. Usually such extreme phase shifts do not occur; this effect will usually be observed when the transmission path is poor, typically in built up areas or where the terrain is unfavourable. The effect is more noticeable on UHF signals than VHF as VHF signals tend to be more robust.
A PAL decoder can be seen as a pair of NTSC decoders:
* PAL can be decoded with two "NTSC" decoders.
* By switching between the two NTSC decoders every other line it is possible to decode PAL without a phase delay line or two phase-locked loop (PLL) circuits.
* This works because one decoder receives a colour sub carrier with negated phase in relation to the other decoder. It then negates the phase of that sub carrier when decoding. This leads to smaller phase errors being cancelled out. However a delay line PAL decoder gives superior performance. Some Japanese TVs originally used the dual NTSC method to avoid paying royalty to Telefunken.
* PAL and NTSC have slightly divergent colour spaces, but the colour decoder differences here are ignored.;
* PAL supports SMPTE 498.3 while NTSC is compliant with EBU Recommendation 14.
* The issue of frame rates and colour sub carriers is ignored in this technical explanation. These technical details play no direct role (except as subsystems and physical parameters) to the decoding of the signal."

CONCLUSION:
PAL and NTSC dont have necessarily to do with image quality, only format.
Therefore, thats not the correct answer to why the image is crap.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2007, 19:17 
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hmm maybe it's something with your eyes... :wink:

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2007, 19:51 
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dragffys wrote:
Hans wrote:
We recorded this DVD in Santiago de Chile, on NTSC. If it would have been superb quality (PAL) and
top notch equipment that we were after, we would have recorded in Amsterdam or another big city in Europe.


From Wikipedia:

"PAL, short for Phase Alternating Line, is a colour encoding system used in broadcast television systems in large parts of the world. Other common analogue television systems are SECAM and NTSC."
"NTSC is the analog television system in use in the United States, Canada, Japan, Mexico, the Philippines, South Korea, Taiwan, and some other countries, mostly in the Americas (see map). It is named for the National Television System Committee[1], the U.S. standardization body that adopted it. It is frequently but wrongly called National Television Standards Committee. The original document at the Library of Congress is clear in that respect[1]."

PAL vs. NTSC:
Because the PAL format has greater resolution than NTSC, it is generally accepted as being of higher quality.[2] NTSC receivers have a tint control to perform colour correction manually. If this isn't adjusted correctly, the colours will be faulty. The PAL standard automatically removes hue errors by utilizing phase alternation of the colour signal (see technical details), so a tint control is unnecessary.
However, the alternation of colour information — Hanover bars — can lead to picture grain on pictures with extreme phase errors even in PAL systems. Usually such extreme phase shifts do not occur; this effect will usually be observed when the transmission path is poor, typically in built up areas or where the terrain is unfavourable. The effect is more noticeable on UHF signals than VHF as VHF signals tend to be more robust.
A PAL decoder can be seen as a pair of NTSC decoders:
* PAL can be decoded with two "NTSC" decoders.
* By switching between the two NTSC decoders every other line it is possible to decode PAL without a phase delay line or two phase-locked loop (PLL) circuits.
* This works because one decoder receives a colour sub carrier with negated phase in relation to the other decoder. It then negates the phase of that sub carrier when decoding. This leads to smaller phase errors being cancelled out. However a delay line PAL decoder gives superior performance. Some Japanese TVs originally used the dual NTSC method to avoid paying royalty to Telefunken.
* PAL and NTSC have slightly divergent colour spaces, but the colour decoder differences here are ignored.;
* PAL supports SMPTE 498.3 while NTSC is compliant with EBU Recommendation 14.
* The issue of frame rates and colour sub carriers is ignored in this technical explanation. These technical details play no direct role (except as subsystems and physical parameters) to the decoding of the signal."

CONCLUSION:
PAL and NTSC dont have necessarily to do with image quality, only format.
Therefore, thats not the correct answer to why the image is crap.


I will not play your technical troll* game, pal!
If you find the image 'crap', well, that's your opinion.

* = troll (internet): 'a person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users'.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2007, 23:17 
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Hans wrote:
I will not play your technical troll* game, pal!
If you find the image 'crap', well, that's your opinion.

* = troll (internet): 'a person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users'.


I don't consider myself a troll but aparently I still got a very vehement* response... thank you.

*= ve·he·ment - adjective: characterized by rancor or anger; violent

:roll:

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2007, 00:16 
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lol

what is your problem?


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2007, 02:45 
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problem: A situation, matter, or person that presents perplexity or difficulty :lol:

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2007, 14:41 
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dragffys wrote:
Hans wrote:
I will not play your technical troll* game, pal!
If you find the image 'crap', well, that's your opinion.

* = troll (internet): 'a person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users'.


I don't consider myself a troll but aparently I still got a very vehement* response... thank you.

*= ve·he·ment - adjective: characterized by rancor or anger; violent

:roll:


can you just enjoy the dvd?? Why you need this? I dont get it...


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2007, 15:37 
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Ok, I apologize to everyone offended by my opinion.

Being dubbed a "troll" and a "problem" is enough for me.

:flower: Lets all enjoy the DVD. :flower:

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2007, 16:10 
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you are kinda cute :P


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2007, 16:42 
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Fayenatic wrote:
you are very cute :P


There, fixed!

:P

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2007, 22:21 
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I was just about to make a post asking if anyone from the USA had gotten their package yet, when there was a knock at my door! I shit you, not. :green:


Gotta go watch it right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2007, 01:49 
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The performance is all I could want from my favorite band. It is really great and sometimes sad to watch.

The making of Home on the second DVD rules, also. Great, and funny stuff. Very interesting to watch. :D
Except the end is very sad. :(

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2007, 03:38 
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BridgeToClarity wrote:
the end is very sad. :(



personally i'm going to destroy the life of who reveals what the hell happens in the end of the 2cond dvd... :x

next week i'll have mine


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2007, 05:27 
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Just got the DVD too.
I love it!

Sucks I once again miscalculated the correct size of the T-shirt, but oh well.

Everything is great!

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2007, 08:54 
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Hans wrote:
We recorded this DVD in Santiago de Chile, on NTSC. If it would have been superb quality (PAL) and
top notch equipment that we were after, we would have recorded in Amsterdam or another big city in Europe.
But that's what we've already done with 'A Sound Relief'.


But "A Sound Relief" was also NTSC? (I bought mine from the TG Shop, and there wasn't a choice that I could see.)

Unless you have the budget to produce both NTSC and PAL versions, it makes sense to go NTSC because most people can play it - even if the quality is inferior.

If there is a PAL version of "A Sound Relief", where can I get it? :)

The quality of "A Noise Severe" seems fine to me, though the flickery, industrial styling had me worried for a bit about the early mastering problems... ;)
I was more worried about the crowd noise in the "teaser" videos, but not so on the DVD which is up there with "A Sound Relief". Wonderful!

Update: "Travel" was the perfect, though sad and poignant way to end the DVD - and the era.
The Atlas(?) rocket explosion was sublime on ASR, though perhaps a bit too literal this time around?
The "Your music was to stay forever" banner in the crowd says it all, really.


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2007, 16:37 
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BridgeToClarity wrote:
I was just about to make a post asking if anyone from the USA had gotten their package yet, when there was a knock at my door! I shit you, not. :green:


Gotta go watch it right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, how did you get it in California when I haven't in New Jersey? :o


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2007, 22:18 
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Creeping Death wrote:
BridgeToClarity wrote:
I was just about to make a post asking if anyone from the USA had gotten their package yet, when there was a knock at my door! I shit you, not. :green:


Gotta go watch it right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, how did you get it in California when I haven't in New Jersey? :o



HAHA. 'Cause I rule! :lol:

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2007, 23:44 
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The dvd is very good.VERY good and very emotional.The band's performance is really great everyone gives 100%,the crowd is simply amazing,the sound is perfect ,ok the image is good it might could have been a little betterbut it does not bother me at all

It's an amazing TG gig.The best way to end a unique period.Best moments in my opinion Bld,Waking Hour,In motion part I,Monsters..well everything in this dvd is perfomed so great.What can anyone say.Well done!

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2007, 01:51 
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Creeping Death wrote:
BridgeToClarity wrote:
I was just about to make a post asking if anyone from the USA had gotten their package yet, when there was a knock at my door! I shit you, not. :green:


Gotta go watch it right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, how did you get it in California when I haven't in New Jersey? :o


I got mine on Friday or Saturday!!


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2007, 00:18 
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I adore it!
It is soooo phanastic!!!! A big thanks to the band getting this masterpiece done.

And just one advise for people with good audio systems:
Dont play the 5.1 DD sound-track, play the PCM stereo track -
its wayyyysss better! Ways better!!! There the guitar & drums really kick ass
and annekes voice is billion times clearer - on the 5.1 she seems to
have a slight "cold" in her voice :wink:

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