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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2007, 16:37 
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Hello,

As an hardcore TG fan, I would like to say a few things about the A Noise Severe (ANS) Release:

On the A Sound Relief (ASR) Pre-Release pack you could really have something UNIQUE, an autographed picture and an EXCLUSIVE t-shirt, this was of particular interest for collectors such as myself. This time, for ANS no EXCLUSIVE item was included. Even so, as a fan (not a collector), I decided to order the full pack, although I cannot help but to show my disapointment that the only difference to the "regular" pack that anyone could order at anytime, was only a cash saving of 7€. No real "pre-release" advantages there, I think, for someone who spends (around) 50€ on something without seeing or listening to it, several months before it is even shipped to you.
If that wasnt enough, now you extend the selling of the pre-release set one more month, just because people are buying it. Thats just unloyal marketing towards The Fans! Now doesnt that show an enormous respect for those that waited anxiously for the pre-release set to hit the webshop to buy it the first time they saw it?
I understand that a band is a business and marketing has a lot to do with it, but if people are buying it, wouldn't they keep buying if it costed 7€ more? Wouldn't you make more money out of it?
By inlcuding some UNIQUE feature, or simply by not extending the pre-release buying time span, wouldn't you show at least SOME respect for that hardcore fan that waited anxiously for it and spent around 50€ on something without seeing or listening it, several MONTHS before it is even shipped?

Ok, some of you will think: "well why the hell did you bought it then?"
My answer tho that would be: "yes, I did, but MAYBE I wish I didnt though..."

Please feel free to comment or flame me, but I sure would like to hear from the band regarding this.

I thank you while I wait anxiously for the next album.

Best regards from Portugal,
Joao

(edited for spelling)

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2007, 22:48 
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you call yourself an hardcore fan and you're starting regretting to have bought the package?
I find that weird.. Actually think about it this way:
- there is no shop release yet, so the only way is to get it through the webshop.
- the merchandise you will never find anywhere anyway
- by buying it in advance you may have helped to finance the printing...

I remember once when Marillion asked the people to preorder a CD that was NOT recorded yet.. thanks to the hardcore fans, the band collected enough money to actually record and release the thing... I think this is being hardcore!!

Maybe I make a difference between hardcore fan and hardcore collector that you see as one kind of people.

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2007, 23:40 
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1.
Burn wrote:
you call yourself an hardcore fan and you're starting regretting to have bought the package?

Obviously you didn't understand me... note this
dragffys wrote:
"yes, I did, but MAYBE I wish I didnt though..."
I specifically made that remark on bold. ;)

2.
Burn wrote:
- there is no shop release yet, so the only way is to get it through the webshop.

Thats correct, but we're not actually "getting it" yet, are we? we are just ordering and I never said anything wrong about that. I just think its wrong that afterall I didnt have to be one of the first lucky guys to be able to get the "holy grail" pack. The time was up for the discount, people should be paying the normal price now, but OK, this would make sense if it was in fact a limited or exclusive thing, being just money I dont give a crap and I'm not selfish about the money other people save or not. But imagine the same concept on another example: imagine if they advertised that the pre-release pack would be an exclusive limited edition CD of 100 copies. You would check the webshop 10 times a day in hope of catching one, and you finaly do, spending your hard-earned money on it. Wouldnt you be pissed if suddenly someone decides to say: Hey, afterall there will be 1 million copies of it.
Get it?

3.
Burn wrote:
- the merchandise you will never find anywhere anyway

True, but still, anyone around the world can access the webshop, so that doesnt make it EXCLUSIVE, and I was not complaining about the webshop either.

4.
Burn wrote:
- by buying it in advance you may have helped to finance the printing...

I didn't complained about purchasing this or any other pre-release, thats not my issue here. My pun was about the non existance of exclusive-for-the-pre-release-material.

5.
Burn wrote:
I remember once when Marillion asked the people to preorder a CD that was NOT recorded yet.. thanks to the hardcore fans, the band collected enough money to actually record and release the thing... I think this is being hardcore!!

That's one hell of a good idea, as long as the band lets the buying fans know about that, which by the way you told it, it was Marillion's case.

6.
Burn wrote:
Maybe I make a difference between hardcore fan and hardcore collector that you see as one kind of people.

Maybe, but in that case, according to your point-of-view I have to consider myself as being both.

7.
So you see Burn, you didn't quite get my rambling to start with... I'm not mad, I'm just a bit disapointed that we didn't get something REALLY special this time around... I'm still a fan and to be honest, I'm not one tiny bit regretfull about having purchased this pack. I guess TG spoiled us with the ASR pre-release pack... ;)

Please read my original post again and try to get my drift this time! :)

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2007, 03:29 
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i do agree, i think we should get at least something unique, especially now it is even extended the shipping. it doesnt have to be something big but at least something will do, for example some postcards of the gathering (that nobody else has) :P


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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2007, 15:31 
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okee, I'll put it that way for myself: I'm not a collector...
When some people woukld buy a LP to complete a collection, I buy it to listen to it and see the difference with the CD mastering...
Dont really mind not have an exclusive thing...

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2007, 16:44 
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Fayenatic wrote:
i do agree, i think we should get at least something unique, especially now it is even extended the shipping. it doesnt have to be something big but at least something will do, for example some postcards of the gathering (that nobody else has) :P

I didnt meant it to sound like I'm asking for something exclusive to be sent to me NOW. I think it should have been included in the pre-release pack.

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2007, 17:22 
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dragffys wrote:
Fayenatic wrote:
i do agree, i think we should get at least something unique, especially now it is even extended the shipping. it doesnt have to be something big but at least something will do, for example some postcards of the gathering (that nobody else has) :P

I didnt meant it to sound like I'm asking for something exclusive to be sent to me NOW. I think it should have been included in the pre-release pack.


i knew that, i meant that they should include some stuff for example a postcard in the packet ... bc what else could they do? maybe a poster?


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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2007, 06:07 
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Well... im a huge fan but also a nutty collector, and i really dont give a damn about having sent the money even if it was before the dvd was recorded since im sure it will be worth every single penny of it. I try to understand the position of the band, i mean they lost the singer, theyre facing troubled times, and they had problems with the actual making of the DVDs (not the recording of the show), so i try to bear with them and understand, i dont think im being ripped off, the presale is just for us people having trouble with being patient, to assure we have the thing and yes, maybe help them with the printing, being a musician is way far from being rich.

If they choose to drop some promo stuff with the packages for the presale buyers GREAT, if they dont GREAT, i mean... i love to have everything they release, i love them enough to have spent a little fortune getting every single release of them on ebay, and btw that money doesnt even go to the band but to some person choosing to sell their really hard to get items. So, with that being said, i prefer to give my money directly to the band, rather to someone else, im sure the package will arrive as soon as they can send it, not before, not after. They are pretty sure there are literally THOUSANDS of people waiting for it, that is a lot of pressure, mostly on these times. So... i get your point of wanting something special for the prerelease, but i think the dvd will be special enough, in this side of the ocean i dont care if there is an extra picture included, the music is fabulous and no picture will ever capture that. Let me repeat i get your point, but you kinda sound more eager to get a special something (that nobody else will have), rather than anxious to actually see the DVD.

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Last edited by Faridee on 06 Nov 2007, 11:22, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2007, 11:17 
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Faridee wrote:
you kinda sound more eager to get a special something (that nobody else will have), rather than anxious to actually see the DVD.

Since I'm speaking of a pre-release pack, you're right!
But of course I'm excited about seeing the DVD, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. And no, I do not regret having bought it one single time, I'm counting the days 'till it gets here!

I do get your point though, but you know how opinions are like - averyone has one. Still, once again, I'm not flaming the band or anyone for things like the price, the content or the release date of this material, just about the lack of something exclusive (like ASR's signed photo) and the extention of the buying time. I mean, at any time, maybe 1 year from now, you can still get the DVD+CD+shirt from the webshop and say: "hey! I got the pre-release!"... it should be something limited. And this is MY opinion!

And just for the record, TG weren't the only ones doing this sort of thing as they did on ASR... hundreds of bands have done it, for recent examples: PIG DESTROYER and DOWN did this. Regarding the last example, a few months ago for their latest release DOWN III: OVER THE UNDER, the orders placed under the "pre-release" period received a SIGNED version of the CD. No extra costs for the bands or anything, just a few hundred signatures to make it unique.

Heck, even Anneke did this for her ADA album! ;)

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2007, 12:32 
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I'm must admit I AM A RECORD COLLECTOR. I've been one since my first Iron Maiden LP back in '84.

I do understand, exactly, what dragffys means. Record collectors don't are just normal fans, they reveal a complex mix of characteristics: a love of music; obsessive-compulsive behaviour, accumulation and completism, selectivity; and self-education on the bands activities and doings.

A record collector is the one that spreads the word, the one that creates the forums, the sites, the reviews, the ongoing market on ebay, the ones that pay a very expensive Festival Ticket (like Rock in Rio) just to see HIS LOVED band on stage, the ones that will endure this band history even after they're gone.

Of course there will be always someone that say that MUSIC is all that's matter. Being a musician myself I also agree! Of course I do!

But that's not the case when we manage a band's worldwide image and sellings. A good marketeer will look for these hard-core-obsessive fans. The're the ones that will buy in firsthand even if the record is closed in a black box and don't know what's inside. They now that they will spread the word and write the reviews.

The Gathering knew that when they released ASR. Knew that they were offering something to the 'HC fans'.

I do want to be different from the new guy in town that discovered the band last week. I was the one that bought every damn record, single and shirt in the last 10 years or so. I was the one that waited long weeks when ASR was delayed. I was the one that waited 5h in the cold for an Anneke's photo and kiss.

I'm I a lesser fan then I was when I bought ASR pre-release?

I do Love this band. It's not the money. It's not the waiting. It's the trade-off that is done with an hardcore fan when collecting is the issue on the discussion table. And in this case: expanding the pre-release is a mistake.

And this is just my opinion.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2007, 13:47 
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Crmk wrote:
I do Love this band. It's not the money. It's not the waiting. It's the trade-off that is done with an hardcore fan when collecting is the issue on the discussion table. And in this case: expanding the pre-release is a mistake.

And this is just my opinion.


Not just yours my friend!
Alas, someone who understands were I'm trying to get will all my annoying blabbering! :lol:

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2007, 05:04 
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Faridee wrote:
(...) im sure the package will arrive as soon as they can send it, not before, not after. They are pretty sure there are literally THOUSANDS of people waiting for it, that is a lot of pressure, mostly on these times. So... i get your point of wanting something special for the prerelease, but i think the dvd will be special enough, in this side of the ocean i dont care if there is an extra picture included, the music is fabulous and no picture will ever capture that. Let me repeat i get your point, but you kinda sound more eager to get a special something (that nobody else will have), rather than anxious to actually see the DVD.
Well spoken Faridee.
I remember Hans telling us here that we could expect a release around June. That would have been fabulous but I never bought that for a second. But I guess whining and complaining about every little thing that isn't perfect all-the-way is good for the forum as well... :green:

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2007, 10:02 
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I don't feel that much concerned by this topic.

feel like being only a TG lover... then that's it.

I'm a person who enjoys listening to music, as simply and pleasant as it is. Someone who supports their creator in a way too.

TG is one of my fave bands because their music helped me in many situations of my life (from my teenage period til now) ... to face hard problems, to think openly and differently toward people, to respect them, to take decisions, to work hard, to get a job, a position in the society and much more now...

actually, this music interest comes mainly from my family who are big music listener...
I think they gave an influence to my music orientations and tastes. We have our own fave artists too.

I enjoy collecting stuffs (even TG ones) too but then that's just a game. Just because I love challenges... sometimes the rarer and harder to find the item could be, some funnier moments I live and get.
So this is totally different from what I feel from the music itself. Collections, as big and rare as it could be, can't reflect exactly your true appreciation of music.

The relation between music and its listener is so abstract too.

anyway, I don't mind not getting all from a band and how exclusive and rare it is. This is such a materialistic and obsessive side from superficial fans I would say.
being "hard core", "die hard"... these are non sense and show off words.

I've never bought anything through Ebay... yeah, Ebay is the shit! lol.

what matter is music only... the pleasure and the force it provides.

seriously, i'm much more interested in what fans do think and say, than just what they get.

As for ANS DVD, it is already exclusive, meaning music speaks for itself.
I paid in advance for the full package because I can afford it today... my way to thanx the band again.


Last edited by hoang on 06 Nov 2007, 16:21, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2007, 16:03 
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:flower: Let's all give hands and sing a song :flower:

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2007, 20:56 
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hoang wrote:
I don't feel that much concerned by this topic.
feel like being only a TG lover... then that's it.
I'm a person who enjoys listening to music, as simply and pleasant as it is. Someone who supports their creator in a way too.
TG is one of my fave bands because their music helped me in many situations of my life (from my teenage period til now) ... to face hard problems, to think openly and differently toward people, to respect them, to take decisions, to work hard, to get a job, a position in the society and much more now...
actually, this music interest comes mainly from my family who are big music listener...
I think they gave an influence to my music orientations and tastes. We have our own fave artists too.


I'm not going to even comment this, because it has nothing to do about this topic, and I'm not going to discuss who has a richer musical background because you know nothing about me and vice-versa.

hoang wrote:
I enjoy collecting stuffs (even TG ones) too but then that's just a game. Just because I love challenges... sometimes the rarer and harder to find the item could be, some funnier moments I live and get. So this is totally different from what I feel from the music itself.


Again, no comments there (see reasons on my previous comment), but if collecting makes you feel "special" good for you!

hoang wrote:
Collections, as big and rare as it could be, can't reflect exactly your true appreciation of music.


Riddle me this Batman, the fact that I'm both a fan and a COLLECTOR makes me less appreciative of the music than you?

hoang wrote:
The relation between music and its listener is so abstract too.


WTF???

hoang wrote:
anyway, I don't mind not getting all from a band and how exclusive and rare it is. This is such a materialistic and obsessive side from superficial fans I would say.


Bro, I listen to TG since 1995, I own 51 official releases from TG in CD format only, not counting vinyl, dvd, merchandise, memorabillia, a lot of signed stuff and loads of pictures with the band. Lets not get into the penis-measuring discussion, ok?

hoang wrote:
being "hard core", "die hard"... these are non sense and show off words.


Sure, so are "materialistic", "obsessive", "superficial" and you used them all in one sentence.

hoang wrote:
I've never bought anything through Ebay... yeah, Ebay is the shit! lol.


LOL

hoang wrote:
what matter is music only... the pleasure and the force it provides.
seriously, i'm much more interested in what fans do think and say, than just what they get.


Your not going to start that whole "I want to thank god" speach, are you?

hoang wrote:
As for ANS DVD, it is already exclusive, meaning music speaks for itself.


Good, great, special, fantastic, magnificent, are the adjectives you're looking for, not "exclusive"

Crmk wrote:
:flower: Let's all give hands and sing a song :flower:

Thats SARCASM right there in case no one notices... I like it!

Now seriously people, can't no one besides CRMK get my point? You all try to "fight" with diferent arguments than the one's needed... I haven't heard a single good comment regarding this... I'm not mad with TG or any of you, I just find it hard to believe that no one gives a shit about this.

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2007, 01:34 
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dragffys wrote:
I'm not mad with TG or any of you, I just find it hard to believe that no one gives a shit about this.

I'm perfectly happy with what is heading my way. Why should TG feel obligated to include something special for the fans just because they did so previously with the signed picture. Also bear in mind that 'something special' for the fans is usually reserved to the extra disk we get, the DVD2 which includes......well, extra's.

So indeed I don't give a shit and you DID gave us that licence to flame or comment... :wink:

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2007, 04:43 
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I always had the feeling that many TG fans somehow believe the band owes them something or, as it happens in worst cases, that they own the band itself or at least some rights that enable an occasional demand.

These cases are of course the result of a huge misconception.


We should never mistake accessibillity for... well, anything else.

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2007, 13:23 
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dragffys wrote:
Now seriously people, can't no one besides CRMK get my point? You all try to "fight" with diferent arguments than the one's needed... I haven't heard a single good comment regarding this... I'm not mad with TG or any of you, I just find it hard to believe that no one gives a shit about this.


I get your point perfectly and I also agree with you that it would be nice to get something extra if you pre-ordered the dvd. A signature or a postcard or whatever. Anyway I am not disappointed with the way things are. If we don't get anything extra I'm ok with that. I'm a collector too but in this case I'm just waiting for the dvd. I really get your point and agree to some extent but I also understand the other arguments. I stand somewhere between the two opposite sites and don't have much to add to this discussion.

If they continue to sell the pre-release set it's ok for me, I don't care. The pre-release set is just a bit cheaper and I don't care if more people get the stuff for the same price as I did. It would be different if there was something limited/unique/exclusive in the pre-release set and they would continue selling it after the release. Another record company did that for another band I like. They released a live cd limited to 10 000 copies but because it was selling so well the record company decided to print it more and you can find it in the shops even now, years after the first edition was sold out. Now that was unloyal marketing.


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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2007, 15:01 
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@ dragffys:

The Gathering or my collection doesn't make me "special" (lol)... I'm nothing special.

I'm just fine and happy with their music.

cheers


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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2007, 21:44 
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Actually I'll quote René on this... I asked him if there would be some community bonuses for ANS and his reply was
"No, no bonuses. No special limited items, nothing of this bullshit! We go straight to the point"
I replied "way to go boys" ;)

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