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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2009, 16:56 
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I just wanna say that I was a little concerned after Nightwish "disaster" but i can see that TG survived Anneke's departure and is doing well. The West Pole is an amazing album and Silje is doing a very good job, thumbs up for her !

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2009, 23:46 
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Lukaz wrote:
We have very similar takes on the album... very, very similar! Just look at my ratings.. And you are dead on about Pale Traces... I just can't listen to it, it's the first track in the Gathering history that I absolutely can't stand... I skip it every single time. all the 10/10's are really surprising to me.

Hmm, you're right! Intriguing. And good to know that although this is the minority position, we're not alone.

Neil wrote:
Pale Traces > virtually everything on the new Stream of Passion album

If that was directed at me, what makes you think I care about Stream of Passion? I'd rather judge the album on its own merits. Even if Stream of Passion releases even worse material (your judgment, not mine) that doesn't improve Pale Traces one bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2009, 15:10 
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This all comes down to personal taste. I liked the first Stream of Passion album, and that was enhanced by seeing them play live and meeting the band - including Marcela, who I already "knew" from another forum anyway. Because I sort of know her, I don't want to be negative, but I haven't really warmed to "Pale Traces" yet. I think the problem may lie elsewhere.

At the moment, I'm of the opinion that "Pale Traces" is written/sung in "Elfonia mode". It's hard to describe what that means, except to say that I think Marcela uses a different approach on Elfonia recordings compared with SoP v.1. I think she may also be in "Elfonia mode" on parts of SoP v.2 - which might mean that the presence of Arjen Lucassen made a difference on SoP v.1.

Anyway, sooner or later I'll join in this game and rate the album. The lowest rating will be reserved for "When Trust Becomes Sound" - partly because of the repetition (which was a problem for me in Black Light District days too - I just don't get it) and partly because if it all means what I think it means (and, of course, I could be wrong), I'd rather that they expressed their angst behind closed doors, not on the next album. We've had all that from Nightwish, and it's all too transparent. :-?






I mean, if Rodin's girlfriend had dumped him, you'd hardly have expected his next statue to be a grumpy version of himself, with an "expressive" finger stuck in the air. :wink:

As for repetition, if you ask me, it seems to work in the music of Philip Glass, but nowhere else.

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2009, 23:36 
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Maks wrote:
Neil wrote:
Pale Traces > virtually everything on the new Stream of Passion album
If that was directed at me, what makes you think I care about Stream of Passion? I'd rather judge the album on its own merits. Even if Stream of Passion releases even worse material (your judgment, not mine) that doesn't improve Pale Traces one bit.
It was just an observation, as someone who likes both bands I found it interesting that the one song Marcela did as a guest was better than almost all of the album with her main band (IMO of course and no one is required to care about SoP).
Anyway, I then went on to say what I thought of Pale Traces in the context of the Gathering album.

Geoff Palmer wrote:
As for repetition, if you ask me, it seems to work in the music of Philip Glass, but nowhere else.
It works everywhere, it's just a question of how much :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2009, 23:16 
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The world is a more beautiful place with The Gathering in it. :flower:

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2009, 00:17 
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Quite so, despite any reservations. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2009, 22:30 
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OK, here goes. I refuse to assign "scores". That's rather like measuring a Michelangelo statuette to find out whether it's any good. In running order:

When Trust Becomes Sound: It works better the more I hear it, but ... Is this the antithesis of something? A rock-style act of "vengeance" after so many recent introspective compositions? Still wondering. The repetition lessens as you listen to the detail. What are they shouting?

Treasure: I liked this song from day one, but partly because I connect it back in time, to All About Eve's ill-fated but actually very good fourth album Ultraviolet. Compare it with AAE's "One Finer Day", which you should be able to find on YouTube. It's not the best song on the album, but ...

All You Are: A traditional TG song, really. And it gives Hans a good chance to beat the hell out of his drum kit. Impressive, but not the best song on the album.

The West Pole: Given the need to find a new singer, this album had to be about voices - and it really starts to show here. This is a sublime song - a creation that Pink Floyd would have cheerfully sold their souls for. It's wonderful for several reasons, not least of which is the matching of the voice to the music, especially in the lower-register sections. It's one of two absolute masterpieces on this album. At the same time, it's strangely reminiscent of the past.

No Bird Call: Here's the other masterpiece - and beyond any doubt the best composition on the album. Again, the match between voice and music is superb. Towards the end, it's absolutely breath-taking. These two tracks, taken together, illustrate why Silje became the preferred singer, rather than either of the guests, or anyone else, for that matter (even if she sounds very much like Anneke in places). This is also a song that would have been perfectly at home on the most sophisticated TG album so far, by which I mean Souvenirs.

Capital of Nowhere: From the very beginning, note René's very different guitar tone - there's a different voice coming. And when Anne starts to sing, her voice sends shivers down my spine every time. After those initial bars, things flatten out a little - until Marjolein's bass starts to become very noticeable, and suddenly the lightest voice is accompanied by the deepest instrument. The opening may thrill, but as the song develops it gets steadily better and better. A favourite amongst favourites, but Anne's voice couldn't have worked with all of the songs on this album. (And if this is the track that links back in someone's mind to a certain Scandinavian singer who I mentioned once ... on the basis of a few of her songs, one in particular, she could have competed - but not right across the full range of material on this album :wink: .)

You Promised Me a Symphony: Darkness. Every dream destroyed. It's that introspective moment, and who's to say whether we're meant to compare? It's not the best song on the album, but ... it's all getting almost Brechtian.

Pale Traces: I've already said something about Marcela singing in "Elfonia mode". Perhaps it's because this song also has to work in Spanish, but there's something about the opening sequence that doesn't work for me. Having said that, it then takes off and becomes one of the heaviest songs on the album. Not only that, but it straddles all the eras somehow, slotting in anywhere between Mandylion and Souvenirs. To some extent, Marcela's wonderful voice echoes early Anneke - there's no escaping this conclusion. Another favourite amongst favourites. If I could read the sleeve notes, perhaps I'd know whether Marcela is playing the violin near the end.

No One Spoke: Again, back to an earlier Anneke era - perhaps HTMAP this time? And a bass lead in the middle! Then we can turn away from those thoughts - including thoughts about the past - and listen with awe to René's guitar after about 3:20. And then listen with awe to how Silje's voice suits that mood (as it should, after Octavia Sperati). Suddenly, we're going back to the roots - and I've always said that despite the general move away from "metal", TG can revisit the mood of that territory at any time, because they know how to do it. A great song.

A Constant Run: From the opening bars, we're moving, as the title suggests. This starts as a strongly Anneke-type song - both in terms of the tune and the lyrics. But I'm starting to wonder what I mean by that. Soon, we're listening to a Silje-style construction instead. And fabulous, fabulous music. One of the fabulous things about the songwriting is that you just know when the song title is coming - it's got a very strong hook. And more guitar magic after 3:00, matched again to Silje's way of singing. I've mentioned two masterpieces on this album, and this would be number three ... if I didn't feel that the final playout is slightly too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2009, 15:57 
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Excellent review!


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2009, 14:27 
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the album gets an 8/10 from me. The only track i don't listen to that much is the title track.
My favourites by far are Capital of Nowhere, No Bird Call and Pale Traces.

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2009, 07:46 
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1.-When trust becomes sound 9/10
2.-Treasure 7,5/10
3.-All you are 8/10
4.-The west pole 8/10
5.-No bird call 9/10
6.-Capital of nowhere 8/10
7.-You promised a symphony 5,5/10
8.-Pale trace 8/10
9.-No one spoke 8,5/10
10.-A constant run 8,5/10

Great album, way better than I expected.


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2009, 21:38 
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Burn wrote:
saskia_ wrote:
No One Spoke: Too happy, too poppy, but Silje sings perfectly... I think this is the weakest song of their current live playlist. It is just not interesting enough, but when I found out that the lyrics were about relationship problems, the song made far more sense !

Ouch... to me this song live is beautiful! Yeah it's poppy but just for the end when the guitar riff goes one beat further than it did before and that the drums also make the accent with some crashes... it gives me goose bumps and live in proved to do the same (at least to me)
At first I also though this was not a great song... but actually I love it! it rocks!!


Current setlist: Treasure in, No One Spoke out!


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009, 20:16 
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It's the most refined & atmospheric album TG have made so far. Also, it's great to listen to an album which is not a total deviation to the previous ones and I caught myself thinking "oh this could be a great track on HTMAP or Nighttime Birds", or that "this one sounds straight out of "Souvenirs" or "Home". For me it's like a soundscape of everything they have done before - but at the same time a glimpse into the future. It's an album which gives them a perspective of where they are as a band and what their signature sound is, without being pigeonholed in any way, because the music in it is so out-worldly.
It was also very interesting to hear a new voice - it was almost like discovering a brand new band. Silje is also a very good lyricist, the lyrics fit with the music so nicely because there's more of a poetic element in them than Anneke's lyrics - without being tacky.

All in all, I'm so excited and pleasantly surprised about the band that I'll go out of my way to watch them live - in spite of having to travel abroad as they don't visit the UK - which is a pity.


I forgot to rate it but that's the easy part: 10/10

The album gets better every time you hear it and the tracks are all amazing, there are no fillers there, you can listen to it again and again, all the way through.
I think even some of the fans underestimate the album because it's a difficult to warm up to at first and it might not be to everyone's taste. For me it's their best album to date and I wouldn't give 10/10 to any other of their previous albums.. Souvenirs and HTMAP are solid 9's, Mandylion is an 8.5, Sleepy Buildings maybe an 8-8.5 and Home 7.5-8 so I'm not generous at all.

They are perfecting their sound with this one, simply because it's all about the songs this time around, the urgency and economy of the melodies - as one of the reviews pointed out. And all the other factors that make up TG work to compliment the songs rather than overwhelming them. It wasn't always like that in the past.

I'm sure the band are very proud of this album and why shouldn't they be.


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2009, 23:09 
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I loved it at the beginning.

I think I listened to to it more than 100 times.

very good album. I loved it the first times I listened to it.

instrumentations: 6,5/10 (best mark for no bird call with 09/10, typically TG spirit and identity)
singing: 8/10 for Siljes, 6/10 for Marcela (powerful but too much honey for TG!) 9/10 for Anne (mmm... capital of nowhere!)
chemistry: 8/10
production and mastering: 10/10 (significant on Pale Traces, Capital of Nowhere, No Bird Call)
creativity 5/10 (ex: No One Spoke is one of my favourite song but sometimes it reminds of U2 especially the piano, another ex: Capital second part is too Floydian)

still fan but I'm sorry, i'm not addicted to the new songs. they're very very good during some days* but then I need something else... but I still admit the band won its challenge.

Can't wait for live experience and to hear the next stuffs.

I don't love it, I just like it a lot.

ps: today i listened to Strange Machines like 8 times non stop. mais megaLOL. that's sick, especially after 14 years TG playlist, don't you think? I feel like it was yesterday in november 1995. ah la la...


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2009, 21:40 
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I hated it at the beginning but love it now. But it took me listening 2-3 times before I could start seeing the genius behind the album; and I consider myself an experienced listener. :green:
The West Pole was the first album in ages that had that effect on me and the greater the effect the greater the album so hats off to them for doing that. It's the best music I've heard this year.
So keep on listening until you get it :green:


When you first listen to an album you're trying to find analogies with other things you've heard before - 'oh this sounds like this and like that'. But once you get past that stage you can appreciate the album for what it really is.


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009, 00:01 
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I can agree with the way you feel this album.

but it's not my personal case.

To me, music experience has no theory. There's no rule too in music. most of the time I categorize the songs just in order to be understood by the listeners ... to adapt my language...then that's it. because it's reductive.

There's more about emotion. something you can feel with your heart, more than your ears. So anyone can approach music on his own. Because everyone is simply different. but all is essentially a matter of taste. Some taste that is made from your environment, the past experience you lived on your own, the relationships or links you have with others, the analogies you compare naturally... and so on. Then it targets your taste and the way you appreciate music... even people. The more opened your environment is, the widest your taste you have, the reallier you music love is.

It works for the listener but also the (music) artist. The West Pole is a different album with a newer approach and art defined more from the band and than directly the listener.


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009, 01:20 
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yeah, you're right, it's all about emotions. Don't know why this album worked for me and not for others, maybe they were having certain expectations when listening to it or perhaps the music they like to listen to is different to what the Gathering create at the moment and they stay on board because of their familirisation and affiliation with the band in the past.
But for me it worked in its entirety and I can't stop listening. Maybe because I put more emphasis on the atmosphere and presentation of an album while others on how original/familiar it may sound to them. I really can't tell, all I know is that for me it's a masterpiece, and that's as much as I can say.


Some say - for instance - that Bovio's performance is weak. Well for me the placement of that song in the sequence of songs that make up the WP is pure perfection, even if the song didn't stand on its own. it's all about presentation for me. I probably wouldn't like an album sung entirely by Bovio or Anne and I think that Silje was ultimately the best choice for a permanent singer. However I more than welcome the inclusion of those two songs as they appear. There is a lot of thinking behind the creative process this time and I don't think they could have done anything better given the circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2010, 17:14 
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album: 4/10

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2010, 21:14 
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Maksy wrote:
album: 4/10

Nice review!

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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010, 19:42 
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It suprises me that no one mentioned the very subtle, hinting "theme" that at times pops up in several songs... Or is that just me? I am referring to the sublime guitar part in No bird call, there it really jumps forward in a splendid blooming.. something...

It seems to me that some variants of that orchestration is being used as backdrop in other songs...

Need to listen some more in order to really get a grip on it though...

edit:
I think i found what i meant:
listen to the 3 minute ish mark on no bird call,
then listen to the final seconds of All you are,
then listen to the 5 till 6 minute part of pale traces... which is quite an excellent song imho....


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 Post subject: Re: Rate 'The West Pole'
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010, 23:39 
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yeah now what you mean... no bird call is an underestimated song to me. love the guitar part too.

Anyway, I assume this is the only one which I feel with some true and known TG spirit...instrumentally speaking.

well, but all of this I am saying is quite subjective...


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