The Gathering

No, you wouldn't. And even if you did you would never admit it, and that's exactly why i'm not going to debate this issue. You'll only call me a Liberal anyway, even though i'm not, just because i had a pop at Bush and Regan. Clinton was just as bad in different ways but he played sax and stuck a cigar up an intern, and that makes him alright in my book.

To clear this up, all governments are liars and murderers. But any government that has a fundamentalist christian as it's figurehead has to clearly be beaten in to the ground with whips rather than control any matters related to the real world, because they don't live in it.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

So, would you blame France for WWII?
Being liberal is a good thing.
You didn't mention Regan, were you refering to the Afgan War in the '80s? then yes, we did create him, but we also helped created the Soviet Union then as well, we armed them in the dire days of WWII. At least you made it clearer to me, I don't get it when people assume ONLY Bush for things that Clinton basically did himself. It just seems peoples attitudes were different toward Ol'e Bill, simply because he was Bill, and not George.

No, why would I? France was overrun and occupied during wolrd war II, Britain was actually being attacked during world war II, so i think your comparisons are not terribly accurate. America has created it's own enemies though, mostly through arming and training them. There would have been no cold war if it were not for the American and Russian governments both wanting to have an enemy so that they could have further control over their own general public. Most wars are just exercises in publicity, whether for political reasons (your Bush's and Clintons and Regans) or for weird scary self-promotional reasons (such as Tony Blair getting involved in every scrap he can find). No government is "kind" enough to help another country out without damn good reason, and that reason is money.
You are right when you say there's little difference between Bill and Dubya. They are two different sides of the same coin, and i can see why that would annoy you if you voted Republican. But to deny the fallibility of any government is surely irresponsible and dangerous?

That's enough for now.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

The Treaty of Versailles completely destroyed any thought of Germany rebuilding itself. The French asked for so many reparations, in such large amounts, on top of Germany already being broke, and starving from the war. France humiliated Germany. This is what gave rise to the Nazi party, and is Hitlers main reason for coming to power, and then invading France. There is a famous photo of him stamping his foot in excitement at the French surrender, he made them sign it on the same rail car that Germany had surrendered to France in the first war. Many blame France for the rise of the Third Reich.
We could even blame the Russians, the German Panzer divisions couldn't train in Germany. They trained in Russia.
I know what your saying about most conflict. Like the Argantinian invasion of the Falkland Island. It was purely to get peoples attention off of Argentinas problems at home, and give them pride (since the british haveing the Falklands had been a "shame" on their national pride) But would the British fighting back be a sinister plot? (even though it did get peoples minds off of things, it got Marge Thatcher reelected)
I would never deny the fallibility of government, or anything else. But I don't get how people can say "The government is so stupid....", then in the same breath say "this is all apart of their diabolical scene".
I just don't like it when people act like America walks around cutting babys in half, just to see if there's a penny in their stomach.

But why not? Why should you care what another's opinion of America is? Y'see, i think therein lies a big part of the problem. If every American realised it's as crap and has as many problems if not more than every other country in the world maybe they would be a little more humble. I think we'd all benefit from that.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

Perhaps you have forgotten about Serbia 2000 and all the bombs with uranium and plutonium and the bus that was bombed "by mistake" of those "smart weapons". And Vietnam, and Africa and every damn place on this planet that was bombed by the US. If the USA and Russia and the UK and all those rich countries are not the great evil in this world then what are they? The saviours?!?!? Come on, open your eyes...the world peace doesn't require wars, it requires peace from all sides. It requires no weapons, it requires pure minds, it requires endless love, it requires no real or fake terrorists, coz Osama and Sadam are very, VERY USEFUL BEING CONSIDERED TERRORISTS, if they were dead, where would all those US weapons that are stored be used? Were they made and/or sold just to stay unused? And if they are truly terrosists, why aren't they dead already? Where are the weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ? I only see oil...and btw: How many nuclear warheads are there in the US? Please, open your eyes, don't let them fool you..CNN, Exxon, general motors..do you think they are pure? History is "made" by the winners my friend, not the losers....and id the winner says Osama is a terrorist, then he really must be...

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Luna Obscura (Atmospheric Death/Gothic Metal)
Their demo "Darcanda" (With the permission of Luna Obscura)
New album "Feltia" out: Soon in 2008!

I guess they both cancel each other out .

2 thefan I agree with you !! you are right 100%!!!!

i have to disagree wid you, imho you cannot compare those two.
its not that i think bush is a good politician, actually i dont give shit - he s not my president, and its not my business what is happenin inside america
but people hate bush mainly because of two reasons - war in iraq and... the propaganda movie "9/11". i might agree that this war is: "pointless""unfair" etc etc but i dont believe its just that "america needs oil, so we r gonna bomb iraq and steal it from them".. i think that was a right time to kick hussein ass because that whole shit could go further. hopefully it didnt. right now in tv we can watch that iraq citizens are happy that american soldiers are still there to keep peace, because they understand that if they leave al-kaida(or other terrorist groups) may came, and fuckin steal their freedom again (yes i believe they have freedom now)
to be honest i dont care about this oil thingy, maybe that was one of the reasons to attack iraq, maybe it wasnt. even if it was that couldNOT be the only one - but imo thats kinda obvious if u attack smth u wanna have some profit from this. so they take, btw did they?
from the other hand, osama bin laden. i guess u forgot 9/11 and osama's satisfied smiling face when people were dyin in wtc if u place those two at the same "level".

once more i wanna say that i dont care about bush's politics. i also think he is a dumbass etc. my point is that we shouldnt compare politicians (no matter how bad they re) to terrorists who are fuckin killin innocent people [wtc, train-metro stations]

btw, sorry for my english now i realized

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שמשון

sorry man i don't know how you use your ass,but i only shit with it. as for your question i saw myself bush on the news about 10 days ago making a speech somewhere and saying smth like "they didn't have mass weapons but everyone thought they had.so did i" and laughed.
wow,niiiiiiiiiice
so tell us about your ass. do you like hiding things inside?

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you own me...

...he just write with it

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In search for my Elois...

What the f*ck are you two trying to stir up a long-dead argument? Go find another forum for that kind of sh*t please.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

i'm not making an argument. i'm just saying a fact.

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you own me...

You're just trying to stir up a long dead argument, just attack him in private if that's what you want to do.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

no i want in public.

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you own me...

You're going to get banned if you're not careful.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

ok thanks for the warning.

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you own me...

Cerebus are you moderator or something?!

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In search for my Elois...

Nope, don't wanna be. But it's a damn good thing for a lot of you that i'm not a moderator. There's far too much crap gets posted on here these days.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

you remind me of Bush.

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you own me...