The Gathering

Sorry zunic but this doesn't stand.

The two leftish political parts took 8,5 % at the elections. The other far-leftish parties took 1 %. The centrist-right took 40% and the right party took 45%.

So i don't think that greece is a shining example.

I would expect a more sophisticated answer if it is possible.

PS. No, i don't think that Immortal = Canuckian, i quiet agree with immortal's opinion regarding Europe's policy against Africa. I don't think i would ever agree with canuckian.

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http://mesiever.blogspot.com/

@Immortal: I think you've misunderstood Mr. twIXta. I've been around here like two years and I think I can say Mr. twIXta should be the most tempered cybernaut I've ever seen. Also tagging the messageboard users as sectarians or the moderators as biased and unfair for the polemics in a pair of topics is going way too far. There are tons of topics out there talking of a bunch of things and everybody has his own opinion. Falling in insulting or tagging people on the board instead of offering a true and reasonable debate will not help to support your opinions but to make yourself a bad board-image than will just help people to perceiveyour opinions as attacks but not as individual opinions. If you are such worried with respect and reason why aren't you the first to show'em instead of getting out of hand and just looking for trouble with your "me against all" attitude?

Tavlaras: Your new avatar is killer!

I just don't see what being a moderator has to do with discussion as long as you don't 'moderate'.

Also: 'unbiased' does not exist. I've said it before: there's so many 'facts' that you can mold any 'truth' imaginable out of it.

I'm a human being with an opinion that chose not to vent it here because if you disagree all you get is more 'facts' and accusations of being a victim to propaganda since there apparently is only one(!) person with all the right sources (some of which I've read and snickered at).

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...die leipe necro flavor...

For one more time ...



Thx Yes it is a killer panda

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http://pandaleontas.blogspot.com/
http://mesiever.blogspot.com/

If ya cant beat tha enemy, join them, Eurabia and the United Arabic States !

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...anyway...

Plz Zunic explain it to us, i can't understand what you meen even i try hard.

But wait, i am sure that a have seen a similar slogan somewhere else ....
hhhmm ... let me think for a while .... hmm i found it !!!

"He that is not with me is against me" Matthew 12:30

strange enough !!!

Now about birth rates. If you want to see a civilization that desapperas due to declining birth rates, take a look at the history of Mayans. The got vanished from the earth. Do you seriously believe that the millions of European people will disappear like Mayans?

Or even in an economical crash. What is next? Dictatorship? Communism? Anarchy? Slaves of the Arabians? What ?

So i don't see the reason tha Europe is "dying"

The first thing that we have to look at is not that the arabs are migrating to Europe, but why. And i don't think is for taking over of Europe.

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http://mesiever.blogspot.com/

[quote="Immortal

· 6,600 people die every day in the world because of the trading rules of the EU. That is 275 people every hour.

· In other words, one person dies every 13 seconds somewhere in the world - mainly in Africa - because the European Union does not act on trade as it talks.

· If Africa could increase its share of world trade by just one per cent, it would earn an additional £49 billion a year. This would be enough to lift 128 million people out of extreme poverty. The EU's trade barriers are directly responsible for Africa's inability to increase its trade and thus for keeping Africa in poverty.

· If the poorest countries as a whole could increase their share of world exports by five per cent, that would generate £248 billion or $350 billion, raising millions more out of extreme poverty.
[/quote]

First: If the US didn't put any money in the construction and readying of nucleair weapons the world would have enough money to banish all possible dangerous diseases, so I think you don't have much right of speaking (if I'm saying it right). That's about a hell of a lot more lives.
Second: Both sides are using circular arguments, strawmen and personal attacks, although I have to say that way the most come from our Immortal friend...
Third: This kind of discussion is completely useless. I have seen no new arguments in this discussion the last few days, so if you all could please stop insulting each other we would at least get a real discussion.

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You know all roses should be white.

Now we are "Nazi Republicans?" How can I be a "Republican" when I am not even an American? This ever sink into your thick skull? Once again, the simple display of the simple minded, with their knee jerk anti-American blather.
I bet you have no idea what a "Republican" is. How lame. I see doofus here has watched too many of Michael Moore's movies and still has not a clue in the world when it come to Eurabia or America. I wish there was a more neutral site where we can continue this, so I could whip the snot out of your empty head.



Keep crying and whining, with your nonsensical, stuttering drivel. It only makes me laugh. I knew you would have nothing, just like from your first postings on. Poor baby. Maybe if you throw yourself down on the ground and have a temper tantrum, you'll feel better. I know I am speaking to a blank wall when it comes to your responses, since you have next-to-nothing to say. I knew this from your first attack, since your plain-as-day inferiority complex couldn't handle a thought process, other than your own. When did I call you "A Liberal?" I just responsed to your statements and other meaningless posts, which said very little and meant even less than that. Please don't try to hide behind The Gathering, with your "circular arguments" ( ) because you just got back (with spades) what you so love to give to others, whom you don't like. Could this board get anymore dirty with yourself as a member? I think not. Cheap attacks and even cheaper labels are all you have.

You fail to realise that in America their Conservatives are real conservatives (or they are "classic liberals") and everything we have here, is off the charts compared to Americans. John Kerry would be considered a Conservative here, by far. In America, he was ranked as their most "liberal" Senator. Once again, you still had no idea what I was talking about.



At least you have some common sense and know that I was right on track, while you just avoided everything else. Anything to add? I would love to have a discussion with you, even outside of these boards, even with the private messaging system. You seem to be reasonable, and not prone to personal attacks, like some of the moderators and other posters that get a free pass, since they are the aggressive haters of the forum (that need to be protected). They can certainly dish it out, but certainly cannot take it back. How convenient.

Hey, you didn't answered to my post!!

Are you hiding behind the trees??

Since when it is the USA's problem to feed the whole world, when they do more than most other countries combined, when it comes to foreign aid and support? Why is it that the USA just donated $15 billion to help fight AIDS in Africa and the EU donated a measely $500 million? Is that the best you can come up with? You try to turn around our neglect of Africa, into a nuclear weapon issue? The Americans shouldn't have their own defence, because we neglected the Africans through our own hypocrisy on Africa? Who is going to protect America and the world for that matter? Holland? France? The EU?! We can't even protect ourselves, but yes, the USA should trade in all its nuclear weapons, so they can continue to fight the Islamic terrorists and feed the world's poor, all by themselves, while we do nothing, but think of our next holidays, as our countries turn to ruin? I'm sure the Americans would appreciate you dictating their defence policies to them, especially when you come from a place that hasn't helped (or solved a major world problem), ever!

You seem to forget that the threat to use those nuclear weapons are what kept us free for over 50 years, during the Cold War! Who started the Cold War? It wasn't the USA or her real allies. What did we do? Most of our "intellectuals" and a lot of our politicans took the side of the Communists and damned the Americans for fighting such a "just and righteous enemy." This must be your moral claim to fame, since we always need the USA as a scapegoat for our own failings and misguided policies of hypocrisy and lies. Knee-jerk anti-Americanism, just like I predicted. Blame the USA, over and over and over again, until you can feel good about yourselves. Just sad and pathetic.



Please.. You have nothing to add, so just let it rest. Once again, I have attacked nobody personally, unless they addressed me in a hostile manner. I can defend myself as well, but never needed to attack somebody personally. You are all way too sensitive when it comes to something you don't want to hear.



I have thrown no insults at anybody personally, but was just called a "Republican Nazi." Like that even makes sense, as it is. Just pure stupidity and ignorance. I guess the weakest link just caved in. Don't worry, because I am still laughing at that last direct, personal insult. Guess what.. No moderators stepped in. Go figure.

You couldn't be more correct, Zunic. These people are not even considered "Far-Left" in Eurabia, but maybe "Left of Center" on my continent. When we talk about "Far-Left" in Europe, just take your most far-Left people and move them over five notches to the "Left" and then you have an idea of what European "Leftists" stand for, most of the time.

Greece has recently elected a more "conservative" government, but for so long, they were the epitome of "Leftism" and have the richness, educational system and success to show for it (which equates to NOT MUCH). Don't take offence to any of the Greek posters, since they seem to know very little and are very ignorant of America (by what I have seen here). I have had contact with many (exchange) Americans students during my university years here and they would often tell me that all of the hard working, resourceful and smart Greeks moved to America (or elsewhere) over the decades, and the lazy and stupid ones stayed put. I thought that was humorous, but I'm sure there is a lot of truth to it. They think by watching a TV show, they know all about America, but I have to admit, many Europeans think the same way (just from watching your movies and television, which they claim to hate so damn much).

I think your comment speaks for itself. I don't think Bush was thinking that he was speaking to a bunch of illiterates during his speech, but that's why he was not caring whether you understood what he was saying. Bush was stating that there is no room for neutrality on this issue of terrorism. If countries remain neutral, terrorists will use this against you, since they have nothing to fear. He was saying that if you ignore the threats and these terrorist cells within your countries, you are helping the terrorists. He didn't say that you if don't fight to the last man, at this very moment, Bush is going to attack you. If you think this terrorism is just facing America and Israel, you can continue to keep you head buried in the sand. I believe we have lost almost just as many European citizens in recent terrorist attacks, as the Americans have lost to combat within Iraq.




Once again, if you read what I had stated before, I have covered this in detail. When did I say Europe was dying? We are changing for the worse, not dying. The Euro-populations (of native Europeans) are dying off, not Europe itself. In many ways Europe is dying and becoming "Eurabia." You can take it for what it's worth and watch as things get worse, not better for us all.



When I can predict the future, I'll let you know. So far, it's not looking too good, but if staying in denial helps you, then so be it. I left some links for you to ponder over, if you were interested.




Didn't President Kennedy state something like "As long as European policies make life unbearable for Africans (or Arabs for that matter), their emigration to Europe will be inevitable?" I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something close to that.

That's us. Get used to it, since their birth rates are booming and ours are dwindling down to barely anything. As far as the USA goes, 75% of their Arab immigrants are Christians.

No i wasn't talking about you but about Zunic and Canuckian. They said that europe is dying.


I meant that this isn't the end of the world.


I don't know what Kerry said but i have to agree with you. Europe doesn't allow/want Usa to sell very cheap mutant food the the very poor countries of Africa event they are in very need of it. Europe prefers africans to die instead of eating cheap food, even if its quality isn't the best. Shameful, to say the least.

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http://pandaleontas.blogspot.com/
http://mesiever.blogspot.com/

Didn't the French and the rest of the EU clear genetically modified food many months ago, but were too afraid of what the free trade would do to our protected and massively subsidised farmers? I think so and that's the real issue here, not that these "franken foods" are dangerous, since there is absolutely no proof that they are. I've read several reliable reports of how our European politicians have threatened to cut off most trade with certain African countries, if they accepted these genetically modified seeds, because it would hurt their own farmers, who represent massive voting blocks in many areas of many Euro-countries. Follow the money (and the power)..


Here "Tavlaras". Jose Bove would not be proud.


French Food Safety Agency Reports Benefits of Biotech to Human Health

FR4033 Highlight: According to a scientific report recently issued by the French government, the French Food Safety Agency (equivalent to the FDA in the United States), has come up with definite conclusions indicating that, under certain circumstances, biotech crops can be beneficial to human health. The reports explicitly says that the production of new crops that are resistant to insects would have a doubly positive impact on both farmers and consumers’ health by lowering their exposure to pesticides and to mycotoxins.

http://www.fas.usda.gov/scripts/gd.asp?ID=146107029


The entire text of the French Food Safety Agency report can be found on:

http://www.afssa.fr/ftp/afssa/2004-SA-0246-Bénéfices-OGM.pdf

By living on a continent that embraces embarrassing propagandists like Michael Moore and Thierry Meyssan without any real doubts, you sure like to chase your own tail, don't you, "twIXta?" Just so you know, there is only one truth, not several versions of them.

To make things more clear after the fall of USSR all socialistic parties in europe moved to the right. There was a gap in the center and it was filled by these parties. Their politicians accepted neoliberalism as their ideology and can't be considered as socialistic parties anymore.They are centrist enough with more views to the right than to the left. The are socialistic only in their name, but in their actions they behave like right parties.

Same in my country, we may have changed our goverment but the policies stay the same.

So, Zunic when it is said that the the Democrats are leftish in Usa, the leftish in Europe laugh at that because they see Democrats as center - right

But this you have to understand more is that farleftish here are more left than they are in Usa and far right are more right that they are in Usa.

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http://pandaleontas.blogspot.com/
http://mesiever.blogspot.com/

I would have to agree with most of what you have said, "Tavlarus." I think "Zunic" knows that we are much more Left than anything in America, with the same name or claim to it. I think this is what he was hinting at this whole time. I think this is also why he knows we don't get a fair picture of America, its policies, and the world, for that matter. Hell, most Americans don't even get a fair picture with their Leftist biased mainstream media, but at least they have more options to get different views than we have here. I guess this is a main reason why they are split down the middle (or are much closer to it) on many issues and why most Europeans are always leaning way too much to one side, and only one side. Sad, but true.

That's exactly my point. Your "conservatives" are technically closer to true centrist. Greece's PASOK party that you claim holds the center-moderate views are actually somewhere between the true center and the extreme far left. If the Socialist party is the middle-ground between political factions in Greece; the opposing parties would have to be gauged based on that medium. One could conclude that the measure of "Right" or "Left" in Greece would be subject to comparison with PASOK's ideology since once again, they are the neutral base and everything can only go either right or left from that point. In the true definition of western society, even the conservatives remain within the grips of the left wing and if nothing more, they are purely moderates at best.


And is "neo-liberalism" another way of saying "neo-communism"?