The Gathering

From what I can tell there's no way in hell it will pass in Netherlands. I'm not certain on the latest numbers, but from what I've seen on message boards from Dutch people I'd guess around 65% will vote against the constitution.

I hear a lot of people are pissed off still about the Euro, but I dunno. Either way, it's a good thing this constitution is poised for failure in my opinion.

Also there seems to be a deep resentment amongst a lot of people, from what I can tell, about the way the politicians have campaigned for this constitution. Many feel they are being deceived and manipulated by scare tactics into voting "yes" for the referendum(s).

Here's an interesting perspective from an American journalist on the tactics of the "pro-constitution" campaign....


EU Just Won't Take 'No' For an Answer

I'm 'voting' against the referendum by not going.

No more borders would solve a lot of problems of fighting over land/property and illegal immigration.

I don't know what the "Dutch identity" is, so I don't care about preserving it. We ain't sporting wooden shoes anymore and I don't like potatoes (that aren't originally Dutch anyway) and I can't even remember when I last had 'em with a 'kuiltje jus'. Dutch identity seems to be mainly to be nagging and whining over something deteriorating that doesn't exist. On messageboards I speak to people from all over the world with whom I have more in common than the Dutch 'average Jan'.

We, as The Netherlands, have to comply to all kinds of European treaties anyway. I don't see what nailing those into a constitution will effectively change.

A greater Europe, the USA and a powerful China and India... imagine some static between those forces et viola: the best parameters for a 4th World War. So that argument of 'no more war' sucks ass. I hear so many totally lame arguments coming from both sides (as well as a few good ones... also from both sides).

I just don't see why they are asking 'us' anyway, so I'm not going.

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...die leipe necro flavor...

You counting the Cold War as WW3?

LOL!

Listened to Carnivore too much I guess.

Dunno why they started counting with the first WW anyway, it's not like there hasn't been war before.

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...die leipe necro flavor...

yeah, but back then Germany and the UK were the only countries of any importance in the world, hence the title.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

hmm I actually think that's the other way round...
And actually even tho I'm worng, I don't care cause if I am wrong... f*ck the borders! and f*ck the national governments!
they have been bullshitting for too long already!

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Maybe i'm paranoid, yeah that's my problem
You almost have to be when you look like me

A European goverment costs way too much money, and it's not even a dayjob for those guys! They make millions of money by having a second job in Brussels!!

So..today I voted NO! To hell with the constitution!

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Het zal wel weer off-topic zijn...
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I'm not obsessed, it's an hobby

And now they will fire those politicians in Brussels and put that Eurogovernment to an end?

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...die leipe necro flavor...

this was the same on both sides. people who were against the constitution said this would lead europe on the path of extreme liberalism, everyone would be starving, all the factories would be shut down, etc...so yeah, the article you quote is crap and biased. sorry

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INSECURE
adjective
insecure people lack confidence and are uncertain about their own abilities and about whether other people really like them.

No shit it's bias, did you figure that one out all by yourself? The author makes no attempt to mask the fact he's expressing his own views on the matters.

Regardless, it may still express some of the Dutch and French voters mentality as to why they remain so apprehensive towards the EU's constitution.

Here's another quick article, that's less subjective to personal opinion:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/06/01/dutch.poll/index.html

This piece is contradictory.

A lot of people who vote against do that because they see the liberal politics of Holland, regarding drugs and euthanasia for instance, endangered. That is what is perceived the Dutch identity, that they feel that needs to be preserved.

A point often made by the protagonists is that the Constitution will help improve the fight against terrorrism, so why would you vote against it if that's your major concern?

In a poll I saw on tv yesterday Turkey and the Euro seemed of minor importance. 2% votes against the Const. because of Turkey and 4% thinks the Euro is the major issue. (sorry, only have a Dutch link Dutch link for that).

And I thought it was the dollar that was at a low?

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...die leipe necro flavor...

I think this whole European State scenario as only come about through governments trying to run our countries as if they were business's.

If our governments thought of their people as a community rather than a commodity then the idea would never have even been considered.

At least we're safe in the UK. Individual Island Nation, we shall never accept the Euro. Not if it remains a public referendum that determines our future, anyway.

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Can't we all just get a bong?

sorry i used the wrong word - this article is wrong, its saying things that are wrong. is it clearer to you now?

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INSECURE
adjective
insecure people lack confidence and are uncertain about their own abilities and about whether other people really like them.

but the governments are meant to take care of the administrative side of your life, not of your personal pleasure and balance. its up to you to be happy, the government is only meant to make sure its people isnt starving, there are roads and schools, and people pay enough taxes to build those roads and schools. all the cultural and emotional side of your life is out of their hands really.

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INSECURE
adjective
insecure people lack confidence and are uncertain about their own abilities and about whether other people really like them.

The dollar is low, but what they are referring to is the euro's exchange rate vs. the dollar's.

Not sure on the exact numbers as I don't keep up with exchange rates, but the Euro went down to an exchange of around 1.22 USD to 1 euro, or .81 euro to 1 USD, which apparently is the lowest it's been vs. the dollar in 7 months.

I have to say you sold your argument well there. Of course it's wrong, you said so!



Even though left wing policies have demonstrated their effectiveness by leaving France with it's craptacular unemployment rate, the claims that the liberalization of the EU's constitution wreaking havoc on employment are dead wrong, right?

The EU isn't going to fix France's problems, only make them worse. The only vote that will change anything (for the positive) will come in 2007 when Sarkozy is hopefully elected and finally turns froggyville back around.

You are wrong my friend.
Nowdays "personal pleasure" and "balance" depends on two things: To have a job and to have money... and goverments do not give a s## about it cause they only care to serve their BOSSES ...Which are the big companies.
So if you read carefully that stupid constitution you will realize that everything is done to support economical imperialism.
They dont give a s## about the people.

Big companies employ the most people.


As an example, when the government intervenes too much, lets say starts jacking tax rates way the hell up there for welfare systems and central health care, the cost of employment for the companies goes up considerably as well, and that my friend is where you start to see outsourcing or companies completely pack up and move their operations elsewhere.

Companies are also less capable of offering greater incentive (benefits etc..) and wages based on skilled worker competition (supply and demand) when they have to increase their payroll considerably just to compensate for absurd tax rates.

This can also affect the consumer end (higher cost of goods/services = less disposable income).

NEE!!!!!!!! 61,6%

Not sure but ---> Dank jullie wel Dutchies!!!!

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Luna Obscura (Atmospheric Death/Gothic Metal)
Their demo "Darcanda" (With the permission of Luna Obscura)
New album "Feltia" out: Soon in 2008!