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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2005, 23:34 
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How about you all get together here to continue this discussion???

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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2005, 23:51 
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I prefer This


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 00:36 
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Yes, Zunic, you ARE a true sucker.
And a spammer.
And I didn't even bother to read your post.
Do you think anyone does?
Do you think that the one with most letters win?
Did you forget this was a harmless JOKE?

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 01:09 
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Quote:
Quote:

Funny how bush accuses saddam of torturing, when the US governement has his own torture chambers in Iraq and when they keep innocent people behind bars for months without any trial while abusing them.



Are you honestly trying to compare cutting tongues off, dismemberments, rapes, brutal beatings which often kill or leave the victim physically and/or mentally incapacitated to sleep depravation and loud music? I deprive myself of sleep and play loud music just about every day. It ain't all that bad. Do you not think the CIA realizes that if you physically torture someone, they will tell you whatever the hell they think you want to here? Saddam's type of torture doesn't work very well to extract credible information. Stop comparing my troops and CIA/FBI agents to Saddam's thugs. It's highly offensive to me as an American.


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very loud music ...

(oh i forgot, this a photomondage from far left god damned hipies)

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 01:33 
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ken1 wrote:
Yes, Zunic, you ARE a true sucker.
And a spammer.
And I didn't even bother to read your post.
Do you think anyone does?
Do you think that the one with most letters win?
Did you forget this was a harmless JOKE?


I am indeed a sucker because I continue to fall into the futile trap of responding to simpleton's like yourself.

I guess if I repeatedly posted three or four messages in a row with single song recommendations on the "Current Playlist" thread in order to bloat my post tally, like certain users on this forum that shall remain anonymous :roll: , I could stray away from this "spammer" impression you've handily labeled me as.

And that apology I offered you a while back? Well I retract that. I was so wrong, and my initial observations were so right, as they usually are.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 01:36 
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Ahh, it's Tavlaras, my favorite quasi-communist. How you doing bud?

Do you really want me to post pictures of Saddam's torture victims, equipment and techniques? They are extremely graphic, and quite frankly I would rather not subject everyone to that kind of imagery.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 01:41 
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Is that a picture form Abu Ghraib? Doesn't look like it is. I've never seen it before, and it doesn't tell me anything. All I see is some guy with camo pants on. How exactly is that incriminating towards U.S. troops? Give me the article you got it from or source or something man, c'mon.

I pursued the link under the picture properties, but still can't find any info on the picture itself.


Last edited by Zunic on 25 Nov 2005, 01:44, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 01:44 
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Do you think i am supporting saddam's tortures? For you the subject is who is torturing them and you seem very pleased that your country is the one who tortures the poor iraqis. For me the subject is that they are tortured.

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites ... hains.html

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 01:52 
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Sigh. Good grief, give me a break.

That is clearly a disciplinary problem amongst those specific soldiers and their officers, and they have been court-martialled (and rightfully so) according to the subtitle under the image.

I seriously doubt they were ordered by the Department of Defense or the British equivalent to abuse the prisoners that way. Torture of that nature does not work, the inmates will just tell you anything to get you to stop. It's not a credible method anyway, so why the hell would we do it?


Also that is a British soldier. Sheesh


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 01:58 
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Yes they are British. You see? I am not only blaming US.

How do you know that is a disciplinary problem amongst those specific soldiers and their officers?

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 02:04 
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Tavlaras wrote:
Yes they are British. You see? I am not only blaming US.


I called you out, now you are changing the argument. That's what we like to call "spin" here in the realms of debate.


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How do you know that is a disciplinary problem amongst those specific soldiers and their officers?



You are all over the place man. Tell me how that is torture orderd by high level officials? It's a few isolated dispshits wrongfully abusing prisoners.

It's abuse, not torture, and soldiers who abuse are prosecuted in the U.S. and Britain.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 02:13 
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Tell me, in 2005, are you against any kind of torture, from psychological abuse to ... physical pain and violation of any human rights?

What's your opinion about the last events in France?

isn't that a greater, you like to call, spin or what? :lol:

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 02:24 
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Tavlaras wrote:
Tell me, in 2005, are you against any kind of torture, from psychological abuse to ... physical pain and violation of any human rights?

What's your opinion about the last events in France?

isn't that a greater, you like to call, spin or what? :lol:


I'm not against things like sleep depravation, because I believe it's a useful tool for depleting someones mental acuteness to continue misleading interrogators with fabricated stories. They are easier to "crack" if they are not as mentally "sharp."

I am 100% absolutely positively against any kind of pain infliction techniques. As I've already said, they simply do not work. And that is basically a quote straight from Jon McCain, who was a POW during the Vietnam war. That guy probably knows a thing or two about torture.

As to the riots in France, well...here is what I said several months ago on this very message board:

Zunic, June 3, 2005 wrote:
Oh well, I guess you can live with your shit for unemployment rate and out of control Muslim population if you want to deny that it's liberal policy at fault


I've said other times as well, but I'm not going to scrounge around for those quotes.

So needless to say, the riots came as no surprise to me really.

I'm all for a general discussion, but don't try to call me out on something and then turn your argument around when I Checkmate you. :wink:


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 02:33 
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Zunic wrote:
Tavlaras wrote:
Tell me, in 2005, are you against any kind of torture, from psychological abuse to ... physical pain and violation of any human rights?

What's your opinion about the last events in France?

isn't that a greater, you like to call, spin or what? :lol:


I'm not against things like sleep depravation, because I believe it's a useful tool for depleting someones mental acuteness to continue misleading interrogators with fabricated stories. They are easier to "crack" if they are not as mentally "sharp."

I am 100% absolutely positively against any kind of pain infliction techniques. As I've already said, they simply do not work. And that is basically a quote straight from Jon McCain, who was a POW during the Vietnam war. That guy probably knows a thing or two about torture.


So you support mental tehniques and you are against any kind of pain infliction techniques because the won't have the desired outcome.

Well quess, i am against every kind of torture for any reason. That's our deference. Have a nice day.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 02:45 
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Well quess, i am against every kind of torture for any reason.That's our deference. Have a nice day.


If you want to call sleep depravation torture, then I torture myself all the time through my job and personal decisions. And it's oh so mentally traumatizing as well. Gee whiz, that guy who wants to blow my family to pieces lost a couple of nights of sleep. OH THE HUMANITY.

If people like you get their way, we'd have to clear out the luxury suites of every 5 star hotel in the world to accommodate all of these terrorist detainees. Would you grant them room service? It may be inhumane to deny them that privilege.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 03:14 
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Zunic wrote:
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Well quess, i am against every kind of torture for any reason.That's our deference. Have a nice day.


If you want to call sleep depravation torture, then I torture myself all the time through my job and personal decisions. And it's oh so mentally traumatizing as well. Gee whiz, that guy who wants to blow my family to pieces lost a couple of nights of sleep. OH THE HUMANITY.

If people like you get their way, we'd have to clear out the luxury suites of every 5 star hotel in the world to accommodate all of these terrorist detainees. Would you grant them room service? It may be inhumane to deny them that privilege.


LOL do they force you not to sleep? Do they wake you up all of a sudden for a specific reason? And this isn't the only mental technique that is taking place. That with the loud music. Does someone force you to listen what are you listening loud? There are not light or heavy tortures. THERE ARE TORTURES.

I insist, you support mental tehniques and you are against any kind of pain infliction techniques just because the won't have the desired outcome.

THAT'S HUMANITY.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 03:26 
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Lmao, your logic really gets chuckles out of me.

I'm not even sure if what you just said is worthy of a counter-argument. I could make one very easily, but it's so silly to me that you would extend such extreme levels of civil liberties to enemy combatants.

Quote:
I insist, you support mental tehniques and you are against any kind of pain infliction techniques just because the won't have the desired outcome.


Have you been reading what I'm saying? I said I was 100% absolutely positively against inflicting pain. The fact that it doesn't work is the logic behind why we would not use this method anyway, since apparently you think our military/CIA/FBI employs these brutal tactics and conveniently has a camera guy on hand to snap pics during a highly sensitive and classified intelligence extraction so they can be leaked out to the media to discredit their respective agencies.

Yeah, that seems pretty logical to me alright!


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 03:51 
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There are not light or heavy tortures. THERE ARE TORTURES.


Weren't you one of the people who lectured me about "nothing is just black and white, there are gray areas" in reference to GWB's "with or without us" (paraphrase) statement in his state of the union address?

I think I just caught a bit of hypocrisy.

I can't believe you are saying the dismemberment of arms and legs is the same thing as sleep depravation. With all due respect, you make me appreciate my point of view more and more with every comment I read of yours.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 04:02 
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Zunic wrote:
Quote:
There are not light or heavy tortures. THERE ARE TORTURES.


Weren't you one of the people who lectured me about "nothing is just black and white" in reference to GWB's "with or without us" (paraphrase) statement in his state of the union address?

I think I just caught a bit of hypocrisy.


your hypocrisy detector is broken, i can't understand your meaning.

Zunic wrote:
I can't believe you are saying the (unsanitary) dismemberment of arms and legs is the same thing as sleep depravation. With all due respect, you make me appreciate my point of view more and more with every comment I read of yours.


ok ok, sleep depravation, one of nazi's favourite technique, isn't a torture.

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Last edited by Tavlaras on 25 Nov 2005, 04:14, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2005, 04:12 
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Zunic wrote:
. The fact that it doesn't work is the logic behind why we would not use this method anyway, since apparently you think our military/CIA/FBI employs these brutal tactics and conveniently has a camera guy on hand to snap pics during a highly sensitive and classified intelligence extraction so they can be leaked out to the media to discredit their respective agencies.

Yeah, that seems pretty logical to me alright!


in the link i gave your there wasn't hidden photos from Quadanamo, there was an experiment where they did some of the Us interogation techniques (some of them came to the light by FBI) to people like you, supporters. At the end they all had changed their mind. I saw some of the tehniques and believe me, you wouldn't like them to happen on you, even if you were the worst criminal.

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