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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2008, 12:23 
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Everywhere we look, we're being bombarded with the label "post". All kinds of bands are suddenly called post-rock, post-metal, or even post-core or post-doom. On another forum, we've recently had a discussion about this. What makes "post" music different from other music? I even checked out Wikipedia, which has an extremely vague page about it that basically says anything weird can be dubbed post-rock.

As there are several people on this forum who seem to listen to post-rock or related genres (whatever those might be), I hope to get a bit of an answer as to what really defines "post". That's because I have the feeling that the label is merely used to attract an "intellectual" crowd, and I really think sometimes that the term is only invented to sound interesting.
Also, there's something very decisive about the term. Post-rock: after rock. If we're past rock, then what comes next? The term post-modernism, after all, implies that we have left modernism behind. Apply that line of thinking on post-rock, and whatever ridiculous more "posts" there are, and we're basically saying that rock music is dead. I think it's rather arrogant to say you have passed the rock-stage and evolved into something "better".

So, what do you think about it? Is the label "post" merely a form of attention-seeking? Is it megalomania, perhaps? Or is it just a musical subgenre that has a peculiar name? And if so, what defines it? Because every subgenre has to be defined, right? What makes, say, post-core different from all the other horrible kinds of -core?

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2008, 12:30 
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I came along "post-rock" when I discovered GYBE!
I know this is probably the wrong definition but I see postrock as music made from the typical rock instruments (drums, bass, guitars) but use to make something else than what you would call rock music... and mix with instrument which you don't find often in rock music (vibraphones, strings)
GYBE! or Sigur Ros are some of the most famous band which I would put in the post rock category.

Now thinking of the "post" prefix, I remember Hans told me a few years ago about Agalloch and described it as post black metal... Well after listening to their album The Mantle, I could only agree without being able to really explain why that it was a good phrase to describe their music.

I'll be glad to read further opinion on this :)

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2008, 12:39 
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interesting view and thread.

seriously, "Post" word doesn't mean anything to me.

A lot of bands are tagged as "post rock" but many of them don't sound like (ex: Lis Er Stille, Magyar Posse, Efterklang, APSE, Gregor Samsa, Red Sparowes, GY!BE...)

i 'd say this word was just popularized.

as a listener, I look for long, emotionnal, soundscaped music.... heavy one, as light one... something I can't find in metal, jazz, goth, death and so on...
post rock is like soundscaped rock to me


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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2008, 12:55 
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Burn wrote:
I know this is probably the wrong definition but I see postrock as music made from the typical rock instruments (drums, bass, guitars) but use to make something else than what you would call rock music... and mix with instrument which you don't find often in rock music (vibraphones, strings)


Yes, that is very interesting, because that Wikipedia article gave the same definition. But by that definition, shouldn't post-rock be a ridiculously broad genre? Take the example of 70's folkrock like Fairport Convention, Pentangle, Trees, Comus ( :o ). These were all bands that used those typical rock instruments, together with more unusual instruments. The music they created was basically folk. Would that make them post-rock? We're talking late sixties, early seventies here, a time in which rock itself was hardly developed! Is that post-rock, or are you better off calling it folk-rock?
Another example: Virgin Black. Some of you know their latest effort, which is an amazing crossover between classical and metal. Rock instruments, together with an orchestra (unusual in rock), making classical music. Is that post-metal or is it something like classical metal?
I could go on about these examples. I'm not saying your definition is "wrong" or something, Burn, because it seems to be the official definition, but let's be honest: there is a huge amount of music that would be called post-rock this way, and it would not give you any information at all as to what kind of music is really being played.

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Now thinking of the "post" prefix, I remember Hans told me a few years ago about Agalloch and described it as post black metal... Well after listening to their album The Mantle, I could only agree without being able to really explain why that it was a good phrase to describe their music.


Agalloch is another interesting example. Their album The Mantle has metal/rock instrumentation and vocals, that's for sure. Also, there are several unusual instruments being used. But again according to the "official" definition, the music they eventually create should not be rock/metal if they are to be called post. But it is! You can't deny that Agalloch plays metal. Yes, there are many quiet (acoustic) interludes, unusual instrumentation, but the music is still metal. Metal with folk influences, I'd say.
Now, their more recent effort "Ashes against the Grain" is a different thing altogether. It's labeled post by almost everyone, and it has ambient or noise pieces, but there are no unusual instruments. Also, there are far less acoustic pieces, less folk influences. Then how can this be post?

I'm rambling, but my point is that I think post-rock is so loosely defined that you can't really see it as musical subgenre. Also, there's the constant danger of any difficult or intellectual music being labeled post because people think "what the hell, it's weird, so it must be post". That would define post-rock as being the kind of music that is more complicated or intellectual than other rock. But we already have a name for that: avant-garde.

@ Hoang: that's interesting. You say the label doesn't mean anything, but you're the one who frequently mentions post-rock bands in the "what band would you recommend topic". That must imply post really does mean something to you, right? :)
Yes, the word is clearly popularized. So much, in fact, that it doesn't say anything anymore. I think that's a pity because labels, as much as many people claim to hate them, are there to describe the music, right? And describing music is rather essential, I think.

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2008, 13:04 
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you still misunderstood me.(wow lol)

post "word" doesn't mean anything lol ...

I consider post rock like metal in a way: from basic rock instruments (guitar, bass, drums: Explosions in the sky, We Followed Tigers, Caspian) to the most experimental sounds (Efterklang, Tortoise, Tarentel, Set Fire To Flames, Bracken), this style is so various. this is a very creative music style to me. then that's my view.

I mentionned a lot of "post rock" bands in the "What band would you recommend?" topic only because they were tagged this way in the review i read about them. This style is still evolving.... a lot of people disagree because they always have the same Sigur and Godspeed speech.

I think you will never understand me as long as you don't listen to all the bands I recommend you anyway. sorry. I don't think you did listen to them (did you?). You wouldn't ask these questions. I think you are jealous... Something I would understand. but I hope I'm wrong

If Music is something theoric, intellectual or a science for you, then check the wilkipedia website for more informations about the meaning of "post rock"... Music is an art to me, it's subjective... you don't have to describe it, to give the right words, especially if you can't "feel" it.
you don't have to be a good writer to enjoy music.... you just have to feel it... "feeling" is not algebra man... it's personal, the reason why we disagree most of the time.

Virgin Black and Agalloch are great band but they are just metal ones. if you want to tag them as post metal ones, then why not?
I don't think so but that's not important. I'll respect you anyway.


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2008, 03:30 
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I don't know shit about what post it is... don't like any of the previous bands mentioned either, and I'm afraid I'm becoming allergic to the term.
Perhaps Anathema's new songs in their upcoming album (Paradigm Shift/Everything) fit in the post category who knows, since I'm not used to the style, I'm not the right person to make such a statement.
Now Agalloch, labeled post black metal sounds absurd to me, even though is quite a good definition, since it have elements of both, for no one is a surprise labels are just silly names used by media in order to define something. I even dare to call them straight: atmospheric doom, but this is another silly/absurd name for it. That doesn't pretent to define their music with detail, but it will give you a clue of what to expect while you listen to them for the first time.
In most of the cases people just use random words trying to give the best definition for something I prefer let the music speak for itself.

"Despite their style being firmly grounded in the dark metal genre Agalloch is a band who prefer experimentation over settling on a niche, the band's releases have bridged the gap between; gothic, doom, black metal, neo folk, post rock & industrial/ambient soundscapes"

Ashes Against The Grain unites elements of black metal, scandinavian prog and post rock with the band's already brooding style.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2008, 07:04 
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you don't have to agree with what all these listeners/reviewers say... their music approach is not the same as yours anyway.

tenebris wrote:
I don't know shit about what post it is....

I still don't know either what post rock is... anyway, I think I understand what many people mean when they label many bands as post rock ones ... most of the time, they wants to refer to Godspeed, Mogwai, Sigur Ros or Explosions in the Sky...

such like labelled "goth metal" bands a few years ago which were referred to The Gathering, Nightwish (lol), Theatre of Tragedy, Lacuna Coil..

tenebris wrote:
In most of the cases people just use random words trying to give the best definition for something I prefer let the music speak for itself.


+1

as long as the music is trully soundscaped and emotionnal (what I enjoy personally currently and what many current tagged "post rock" bands that I listen do), there's no need to pay attention to the rest, especially the way they are labelled and popularized...


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