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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 21:27 
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I agree Cosmic: YAAAAAAAAWWWWWN!!!

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 Post subject: Re: I CANNOT BELIEVE...
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 23:30 
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thanx everyone for your opinions... i understand most of your point of views... 8)

cosmic_mouth wrote:
and i think you are an asshole too :)


typical 8 year old answer... (ken too ;))


Last edited by hangyord on 18 Aug 2006, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I CANNOT BELIEVE...
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2006, 23:40 
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hangyord wrote:
thanx everyone for your opinions... i understand most of your point of views... 8)

cosmic_mouth wrote:
and i think you are an asshole too :)


typical 8 year old answer... go f**k yourself dude ;) (ken too ;))


You call someone else an eight year old and retort with an even more idiotic answer than that? You're not showing improvement over anyone else with that, man.

Please learn to show some maturity, both of you. This is a music discussion forum, not a Teletubbies board.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 06:31 
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Coyote wrote:
even TG changed their style (at the cost of their first unconditional fans who made them known) and they went for easy way, popular rythms in order to catch more fans.


I can understand if you consider e.g. Souvenirs and if_then_else "easy" albums to catch more fans. But than you have Sleepy Buildings and Home and How To Measure A Planet and, please, I wouldn't call those "easy" and "catchy" sounds at all.

In order to catch more fans? Maybe. But they caught me - not because of popular rythms or easy rhymes (I don't think it's the case), but because of the emotion of their songs and lyrics. I just cannot listen to the Gathering without feeling different, and they do that with every single album since Mandylion. Did they change their style? I believe so. Was it to get more fans? I don't know and I do not care. They are making music and this music makes me feel good. That is what matters to me.

Coyote wrote:
and I said it before... maybe TG guys changed the style because of an unconscious fear of not being able to overcome Mandylion or even Ntb. then change style and nobody compares them because they're two different kind of music and blah blah blah.... or they didn't like metal anymore simply and they preferred to be a pop band as now... who knows... whatever...


I don't think Mandylion is metal and I don't think tG would be afraid of not being as good as they were in previous albums. They have their instruments, their creativity, their passion. That makes music.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 09:57 
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You may disagree with each other but maybe you should not start to insult each other too... :roll:
I disagree with what I read from Coyote or hangyord... especially whenit comes to dictating the behaviour the band should have.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 12:29 
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Purists mostly don't accept it when a band is going into a complete other direction. Take Fleetwood Mac, or Genesis. They really changed their sound during the years the were succesful. I don't think there is any need to worry about these sort of things anyway. If you don't like the new direction, just don't buy the records and listen to the old ones you like. Nuff said.


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 12:54 
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hello i guess its a matter of your expactations from "art ".
so i hardly ever read the same book more then three two times or see fav movie more then 5 times ,
but i know people that like seuqels, love to go again to see this same play or movie ,
and also this same people like to listen this same "old -new album" with this same old new song that they heard somwhere before
so thats why there are tha gathering and iron maiden , and madonna(her musiv&image changed a lot) and robbie williams, rolling stones and depeche mode
remeber that even the beatles changed their style and about thier lastest lp's we know less then about thiers hit songs
so in my opinion to author of this topic Yes, I agree this TG is not this same TG that in Always till NT era
but diffrent doesn't mean worst
and for other side Yes, I agree its still TG
cause everything changes , you know panta rei or something like that , even coyote i guess when he was 5 years old listening some pop music and maybe when he will be 45 will be fun of jazz who knows but it still be Coyote but diffrent Coyote, and even that you still wil have some close important people to you from childhood to the end of your days , and other important people only in the some part of it , that same is with the fans of the gathering soem are from the bigining to the end, but a lot of them only for some period of time


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 14:22 
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Burn wrote:
I disagree with what I read from Coyote or hangyord... especially whenit comes to dictating the behaviour the band should have.


I didn't dictate anything, I just posted my doubt here...

imagine my surprise, after years of listening Always (and Mandylion) album, one day I downloaded Souvenirs and I stand like this -> :o

what I first thought was it was a fake, that it wasn't TG... but sadly (for me), it was...

I want to say something, i'm talking about the drastic change of the band, BUT what TG is doing now is not bad music (I said "crap" once to illustrate what you think if you were looking to a metal band like me). However, I found this evolution strange... it is like if Slayer in their next album come out doing reggae... :o :P :lol:


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 14:37 
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hangyord wrote:
it is like if Slayer in their next album come out doing reggae... :o :P :lol:

well... why not? I'm sure Dave Lombardo wouldn't mind. :green:

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 15:38 
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well well well..... I know most people here will never agree with what I said. but this is not my thought only.... many people thinks same thing (not in this forum of course)... there's a lot of people who knew TG in 90's, and most of them think that TG is a living dead....
anneke's voice will be awesome ever (although it sounds much better with metal music :wink: 8) )... but she might continue alone perfectly while the other guys take some beers.... any people could accompany her with this kind of music, this wasn't happening before...... TG was a real band.... but now it seemed she didn't need to the other guys....
good for anneke... bad thing for TG..

oh.. one more thing... someone said that mandylion is not metal.... please.. mandylion is a metal album... simple, elegant, beautiful, refined but metal at last... there're many kinds of metal music my friends

cheers!...c[_].. :wink:

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 17:56 
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Mandylion is metal indeed, I agree with that. Although the music is simple and straight-forward, the songs are beautiful and there are a few great moments on it. :D Anyway, I think Souvenirs is still the ultimate masterpiece of this band, together with How To Measure A Planet?. Both 50 points!


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 20:37 
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Coyote wrote:
even TG changed their style (at the cost of their first unconditional fans who made them known) and they went for easy way, popular rythms in order to catch more fans.


If those 'fans' were so unconditional, they'd still be fans. Come on, think about it a little.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 20:48 
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It's funny really, but for some people it's an age thing, for others it's personality thing. I remember thinking alot in the same way the original poster does about heavy music (not about TG in particular) when I was 14 years or so old. It was all about the fast, heavy metal. Nowdays I still enjoy heavy music but I listen to pretty much everything except rap. My favorite musical piece is in fact, a musical...

My point is, if you are young, prepare to change your views in the future, otherwise keep on rockin' man 8) .


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 21:18 
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Dragu wrote:
It's funny really, but for some people it's an age thing, for others it's personality thing. I remember thinking alot in the same way the original poster does about heavy music (not about TG in particular) when I was 14 years or so old. It was all about the fast, heavy metal. Nowdays I still enjoy heavy music but I listen to pretty much everything except rap. My favorite musical piece is in fact, a musical...

My point is, if you are young, prepare to change your views in the future, otherwise keep on rockin' man 8) .


This is absolutely true. When I was 16 I wouldn't listen to anything but metal. Most of that has changed, though there are periods of time where I still love to crank the heavy tunes. However, I take it all in moderation and most importantly, I don't expect anyone else to share my views in regards to music.

Being accepting is what it's all about.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 22:43 
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mmm... about two last comments... many people thinks like that... but it's not a rule or something...
first place, I'm not so young anymore.. but when I was, I didn't like the first metal band which I was listening in the morning... I've always thought that most band in any genre really sux.. just some of them are really good... besides that... when you "grow up" it's not necessary to chage from metal to jazz, folk, waltz, polka, shopin piano solo or Souvenirs, Home or something.... c'mon... you still can enjoy good metal.... same thing with all kind of music...

e.g.. I love Image and Words from Dream Theater... but I love Octavarium too... the last album.. heaviest than image and words from '92... I'm not a child for that... and DT guys either I think

whatever.. I go for a beer


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Last edited by Coyote on 19 Aug 2006, 22:51, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 22:45 
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I didn't say I was listening to any ol' shit I heard. But I was a genre-biased kid who just didn't expand his mind as much as I do now. That's more of what I was getting at. And I've seen the same happen to a lot of other people... which is sometimes a damn shame.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 23:04 
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Coyote wrote:
mmm... about two last comments... many people thinks like that... but it's not a rule or something...
first place, I'm not so young anymore.. but when I was, I didn't like the first metal band which I was listening in the morning... I've always thought that most band in any genre really sux.. just some of them are really good... besides that... when you "grow up" it's not necessary to chage from metal to jazz, folk, waltz, polka, shopin piano solo or Souvenirs, Home or something.... c'mon... you still can enjoy good metal.... same thing with all kind of music...

e.g.. I love Image and Words from Dream Theater... but I love Octavarium too... the last album.. heaviest than image and words from '92... I'm not a child for that... and DT guys either I think

whatever.. I go for a beer


---------------------------------------------------------


Most of the music I listen to nowdays is still quite heavy so I'm not saying that only kids listen to heavy music. Many people still dig heavy stuff at older age, me included so I'm sorry if I offended anyone :) .


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2006, 23:36 
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I used to love only heavy music... and actually I got into heavier stuffs later on... even tho it's not metal at all... I think Frontline Assembly or Das Ich have so good heavy stuffs..
but I also (thanks to TG) developped a love for all kind of other things

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2006, 18:49 
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Fortunately I was open minded in music from the beginning....I went to the Inferno Fest to attend the Emperor's reunion concert and there was a guy there from Greece who went just 1 hour before to a church to listen to the famous church choirs and organs that are only at Easter in the Catholic Church - it was Friday that night!Yes this guy astonished to that as well as to Emperor's concert...

So who is going to make conclusion which music is better than other?We are talking to TOTALLY diferrent things....the Gathering make two turnovers in their career - one in 1998 and second in 2003!If you really believe that the guys dont make great music then you have to consider yourself that only by playing metal music you can create great music....if you have such beliefs I am REALLY sorry and I have no discussions with you!The reason?You try to make a statement that oranges are better than lemons...yes I agree that oranges are better than lemons!The next time you try to eat your steak dont have lemon on it....use orange that you prefer = Everything has its own position in life!And the position for the Gathering in music has began in 1990 with the first atmospheric recording in this scene BUT oriented in 1998 where they found the FREEDOM and the VOICE!Till then they were in a resque...from then and on they are in a trip to nowhere!Till then they had changed 3 singers in 4 albums....and the Mandylion album was ready before Anneke comes - if you listen to it you will find similarities with the Almost A Dance album...

After the Mandylion album everybody knew how the new album would sound like....can you tell me how this from 1998 stopped and EVERYBODY were waiting their releases to listen to their new direction?The shock I had in 2003 with Souvenirs cannot be compared with the one in 1995...believe me.... :wink:

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2006, 20:21 
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turnovers ...mmm... ok.. yeah very nice...

maybe next "turnover" of TG will be some tribal rythms and dances from north of Botswana, who knows, I don't care... and many people here would say.. wow.. kinda evolution! or this is a real experimental band! or whatever...

but there's something called consequence my friends.. and in the music world.. you must be cosequent not just with yourself.. with people who support you as well... you can not change all the time... c'mon!.. I heard radiohead, I wanna play like them... I heard dead can dance, I wanna be like them... please :-?... I know about influences... but this is too much...
Dream Theater has a lot of influences too, nobody can deny that: 80s Metallica, Iron Maiden, Rush, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, etc...... but they've never moved away from metal, and every single album is amazing...


however.... the most great bands in history have not changed their style drastically never... some bands, not so great maybe.. do that some times...

well... I love TG early years, even until I_T_E (that includes the first "turnover" according prowler213 (or second one maybe... whatever :-? 8) )).... and I will love this music forever, it's there... nobody can erase it...........
but from bld on, my feeling about band is different...


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